Balanky seeks anchor tenant for Kings Avenue Station

[KenFSU]

I'm still wondering what will be the financial ask for Lot J?

It's gonna be very, very complicated, from the sounds of it, with different partnerships and financing packages for all five components of the plan. This is a big part of the reason it's taking so long, even though Curry wants to move on it fast.

Here's how I think the ask is going to shake out:

1) Parking Garage: The parking garage, roads, utilities, and greenspace will be paid for by the city, as would any necessary remediation work. Public ask: $80-$100 million.
2) Live Arena!: Cost split evenly between Cordish and the Jags. Public ask: $0
3) Apartment Tower: Co-developed by Jags and Cordish; Public ask: Rev grant up to $35 million
4) Hotel: I've heard co-development, but I've also heard that the Jags might do the hotel outside of Cordish on their own. Public ask: $30 million completion grant.
5) Office: Partnership between Cordish and City. Public ask: Rev grant up to $30 million

Total incentives package: ~$180-$200 million

[Steve]

That is a LOT of money for 1 apartment building, 1 hotel, and an office building.

Put it this way: the Ryan company development for JEA is slated to cost $72M, including land purchase. I could find three vacant lots downtown, but them, and build all of this for $200M. The massive Parking Garage is what hoses everything up. At $20k/space it's a 5,000 car garage, which is quite the parking facility.

If that's seriously the ask count me out (and I might be the biggest Jags fan on this site). For $200M you could probably give a 15% subsidy to the development of every vacant lot from Broad, Union, Liberty and the River and still have money left over.

[KenFSU]

That is a LOT of money for 1 apartment building, 1 hotel, and an office building.

Put it this way: the Ryan company development for JEA is slated to cost $72M, including land purchase. I could find three vacant lots downtown, but them, and build all of this for $200M. The massive Parking Garage is what hoses everything up. At $20k/space it's a 5,000 car garage, which is quite the parking facility.

If that's seriously the ask count me out (and I might be the biggest Jags fan on this site). For $200M you could probably give a 15% subsidy to the development of every vacant lot from Broad, Union, Liberty and the River and still have money left over.

Numbers are just an educated guess based on what Cordish has squeezed out of other cities for similar developments.

Could see it dropping down to maybe $150-160 million if Cordish considers the city-built garage for the entire development to be enough of an incentive in itself to not get too greedy with the other grants.

Either way, it's going to be super expensive.

[Captain Zissou]

They likely threw out the huge number so that they didn't miss out on Deutsche Bank, who despite financial troubles, wants to move 2,000 employees downtown.

Really? While that would certainly be a good number for downtown, are we sure they're going to be in business in 4 years?

I was joking.  I don't see DB investing much money in anything in the next few years.  My point was that in the event a company needs more than the 200k they offered JEA, they don't want to miss out by stating too low a number.  I don't know that Jax has a company like that, but it sure would be nice.

[Steve]

I will say this, the "roads, utilities, greenspace, and necessary remediation work" I'm open to, as I do feel like those are responsibilities of government.

The garage I have a hard time with the city funding entirely as there isn't demand for a 5,000 space garage today (without the development). It doesn't make sense for the city to fund a garage solely so a private developer can make money.

[vicupstate]

Where is the city going to get even $50 million much less the $150-$200mm we would be talking about?

How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?

[thelakelander]

300 apartment units, 200 room hotel. When they were going after JEA, the office building would have been around 200,000 square feet.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/whats-next-for-lot-j-the-jaguars-dollar500-million-development-proposal

[KenFSU]

How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?

300-units for the apartment building.

This seems to be Cordish's sweet spot for this type of developement.

See:

One Cardinal Way (297 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-cardinal-way
One Light (316 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-light-luxury-apartments
Two Light (296 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/two-light-luxury-apartments

Office component will likely end up being somewhere between 125,000 and 250,000 square feet.

See:
Pattison Place (200,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/pattison-place
PwC Pennant Building (125,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/the-pwc-pennant-building

[Kerry]

The City should just cut out the middle man and keep all the profit for themselves (see the stupid Daily's Place Amphitheater deal).  Alas, it isn't about the City being financially sound, it is about saving the Jags in Jax.  This is just a way to funnel tax dollars to the team disguised as economic development.  I'm still waiting to hear about the thousands of jobs this will create because you know that is coming.

[tufsu1]

Would it make sense to partner with Rummell and build this square footage at The District, and sell or let go of his lease?

that would require Rummel to actually build something

[CityLife]

How big is the Apartment and office buildings we are talking about? Are they being built SPEC?

300-units for the apartment building.

This seems to be Cordish's sweet spot for this type of developement.

See:

One Cardinal Way (297 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-cardinal-way
One Light (316 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/one-light-luxury-apartments
Two Light (296 units) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/two-light-luxury-apartments

Office component will likely end up being somewhere between 125,000 and 250,000 square feet.

See:
Pattison Place (200,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/pattison-place
PwC Pennant Building (125,000 sf) - http://cordish.com/portfolio/the-pwc-pennant-building

300 residential and 200 hotel units is absolutely nothing for a project with the type of incentives you mentioned. In an area that is virtually an island, with little residential nearby, that is simply not enough residents and hotel guests to create a vibrant district.

I'm going to wait till all the details of the proposal come out, but am becoming more and more skeptical by the minute.

[thelakelander]

Jax isn't getting a vibrant district. That's only dreams being sprouted by local media and the mayors office. You'll get some new development. Maybe an Xfinity Live type scene but no way will anything in the stadium district resemble what's in St. Louis and Kansas City. Both of those projects are located in urban areas with significant pre-WWII density. Not surface parking lots a mile a way from the core. So at best, if "vibrancy" is defined as being a 24/7 type of district, we're a few decades at best from that materializing.

There's a development timeline associated with every project and it's also impacted by market conditions (especially the mega projects). Recently, it's been pretty silly seeing quotes and promises of 1,000s of units coming online in one to three years, when reading about the District and Lot J/Shipyards. The reality is...if construction started today, it would take a year or two working on infrastructure associated with these projects before anything went vertical. Not to say that they should not be done or supported but neither will be significantly complete by the time Curry leaves office. Expectations for what they will accomplish and by when should become more realistic locally to avoid mass disappointment.

[heights unknown]

A million SF is like the Wells Fargo building in size, right? With the smaller footprint that would be about 60 stories?

Heights Unknown would be ecstatic! 

You know I would, so I'm waiting to just stand or sit and gaze up in the clouds when they're done. Southbank has two talls already, and many mid sized scrapes; adding something in the upper 400 or 500 foot range would almost rival northbank. I know its early, but yes, vic, I am ecstatic!!! Keeping my fingers crossed; aren't you all ecstatic with hope?

[heights unknown]

I'd rather have 4 to 5 towers than 1 very large tower smh

That's a good point; case in point, Mobile Alabama with the Battlehouse Tower. One 700 footer and almost nothing else, save the 450 footer and those two towers are about the only game in town; however, I don't think our skyline would suffer at all with one very tall scraper on the southbank; northbank certainly takes up the slack with the whole skyline of north and southbank.

[heights unknown]

Y'all don't think that this tower is linked with his 2018 idea/vision/proposal of a 28 story tower on the southbank with gondolas linking the southbank with the northbank. I certainly hope not; funky idea if you ask me.