Brooklyn Marriott Has Design Issues on All Sides

[Steve]

I'd assume a garage would kill this one unless it's subsidized. I'm of the belief that parking should first be maximized on Price and Magnolia to see exactly where things fall. The DIA has also talked about doing road diets for Forest and Riverside Avenue. Probably gain a hell of a lot of parking if both outside lanes of Forest became on-street parallel parking between Riverside and Park.

Curious if on-street parking work with Marriott. I'd assume no unless a Valet was provided (which might be a viable solution). I'd assume Marriott has pretty strict brand standards - in a city like Jacksonville, they're going to want parking provided one way or another. They MAY be okay with Valet and parking the cars on the street, but I'm not sure (who is liable if someone hits a parked car?)

[vicupstate]

I'd assume a garage would kill this one unless it's subsidized. I'm of the belief that parking should first be maximized on Price and Magnolia to see exactly where things fall. The DIA has also talked about doing road diets for Forest and Riverside Avenue. Probably gain a hell of a lot of parking if both outside lanes of Forest became on-street parallel parking between Riverside and Park.

Based on my experience DOT would shoot down any on street parking

[Kerry]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

[thelakelander]

FDOT gave Forest and Riverside to COJ a few years ago. Kerry is right about Magnolia. It's a local street too. On-street parking can be added to it as well. My guess is if on-street parking became a part of the mix, the need to have that parking lot on Forest goes away and the building can be moved closer to Magnolia. That triangle between Forest and Price could become something else more human scaled.

[Steve]

The issue might come down to something akin to "Parking at The Landing". There's plenty of places on-street parking can be added (personally I like Forest as there is no need for that road to be 6 lanes). But, what will Marriott require on-site, and how much is alleviated with Valet?

[FlaBoy]

I wonder if that can be alleviated by an outdoor courtyard or seating area at the corner of Magnolia and Price? Residence Inn lobbies have areas where breakfast and happy hour drinks and appetizers are served for guests. I don't know how this model's floor plan lays out but perhaps there's a chance that this dining area could be located at the SE corner of the building.

This is a great idea. This building is critical to creating something worthwhile at Unity Plaza long term. You screw this up, I fear Unity Plaza will be second rate for a long time. 

Keep the buildings between Price and Forest. Maybe they can utilize some surface level parking two blocks away behind Park. There is also so much parking at TIAA Bank and Florida Blue during the weekends. At this point, there are empty lots on empty lots behind Park to the Interstate.

[Steve]

I wonder if that can be alleviated by an outdoor courtyard or seating area at the corner of Magnolia and Price? Residence Inn lobbies have areas where breakfast and happy hour drinks and appetizers are served for guests. I don't know how this model's floor plan lays out but perhaps there's a chance that this dining area could be located at the SE corner of the building.

This is a great idea. This building is critical to creating something worthwhile at Unity Plaza long term. You screw this up, I fear Unity Plaza will be second rate for a long time. 

Keep the buildings between Price and Forest. Maybe they can utilize some surface level parking two blocks away behind Park. There is also so much parking at TIAA Bank and Florida Blue during the weekends. At this point, there are empty lots on empty lots behind Park to the Interstate.

The challenge is I don't think the parking at those places will have an impact. The hotels downtown are busiest during the week (Save for an event weekend), so Florida Blue is unlikely to want to come off parking during the week.

Now, my personal feeling and experience is that business travelers are renting less cars and using Uber/Lyft much more especially in cities (I've seen stats back that up but I don't feel like finding them now).

[thelakelander]

All they need is 113 spaces. That's not too difficult to accommodate if Magnolia was widened to include parking between Forest and Dora.

[Kerry]

If you build walkable urbanism the need for cars goes down, and in some cases, way down.  This is why many cities have completely abandoned their minimum parking standards.  My guess would be that the target market for this hotel is all of the consultants and contractors that work in the immediate area (Brooklyn, Southbank, Northbank) but have to commute in from airport and Southpoint hotels.  I work as a consultant in LA and we have to share a single rental car across 3 or 4 people to keep costs down.

[Steve]

If you build walkable urbanism the need for cars goes down, and in some cases, way down.  This is why many cities have completely abandoned their minimum parking standards.  My guess would be that the target market for this hotel is all of the consultants and contractors that work in the immediate area (Brooklyn, Southbank, Northbank) but have to commute in from airport and Southpoint hotels.  I work as a consultant in LA and we have to share a single rental car across 3 or 4 people to keep costs down.

Sure, I definitely agree with you there in concept. To your point about walkability, if they build this then because of the freeway that is Forest Street, Florida Blue is harder to walk to then it should be. But, I can't see a business traveler walking even to the core of the Northbank in 95 Degree heat from this location...even if the sidewalks were perfect.

Funny about LA - it's sort of an odd market for business travel - despite being huge, it's one of the few that I get a car in (assuming I'm flying into LAX and not going downtown). Most others I'll Uber just to not deal with the car.

[Kerry]

I take the train.  The Metro station is 1.5 blocks from my hotel and the office is 3 blocks.  A 12 minute train ride connects the two.  I don't need a car at all.  As for willingness to walk - I live at 220 and walk to the CBD, 5-Points, and even San Marco.  Several people living here walk (ride a bike) to the Northbank for work.  It just depends on where you come from and how committed one is to actually living the lifestyle one says they support.  While I worked in Oklahoma City I refused to use their downtown concourse system even when it was 5 degree outside.  I just wore a jacket, scarf, and gloves.  I also lived car-free in OKC and used their bike-share system for 99.5% of my non-walking transportation needs.

[FlaBoy]

I wonder if that can be alleviated by an outdoor courtyard or seating area at the corner of Magnolia and Price? Residence Inn lobbies have areas where breakfast and happy hour drinks and appetizers are served for guests. I don't know how this model's floor plan lays out but perhaps there's a chance that this dining area could be located at the SE corner of the building.

This is a great idea. This building is critical to creating something worthwhile at Unity Plaza long term. You screw this up, I fear Unity Plaza will be second rate for a long time. 

Keep the buildings between Price and Forest. Maybe they can utilize some surface level parking two blocks away behind Park. There is also so much parking at TIAA Bank and Florida Blue during the weekends. At this point, there are empty lots on empty lots behind Park to the Interstate.

The challenge is I don't think the parking at those places will have an impact. The hotels downtown are busiest during the week (Save for an event weekend), so Florida Blue is unlikely to want to come off parking during the week.

Now, my personal feeling and experience is that business travelers are renting less cars and using Uber/Lyft much more especially in cities (I've seen stats back that up but I don't feel like finding them now).

Agreed. Rarely are business travelers renting cars nowadays with Uber/Lyft so convenient. Likewise, the best reason to stay here would be because you going to the Brooklyn TIAA Building, Florida Blue, FIS or a surrounding business. Most likely you would walk or Uber over for cheap.

For the short to mid term, there is a ton of vacant land between Park and the Interstate that could be used for Valet.

[Steve]

I wonder if that can be alleviated by an outdoor courtyard or seating area at the corner of Magnolia and Price? Residence Inn lobbies have areas where breakfast and happy hour drinks and appetizers are served for guests. I don't know how this model's floor plan lays out but perhaps there's a chance that this dining area could be located at the SE corner of the building.

This is a great idea. This building is critical to creating something worthwhile at Unity Plaza long term. You screw this up, I fear Unity Plaza will be second rate for a long time. 

Keep the buildings between Price and Forest. Maybe they can utilize some surface level parking two blocks away behind Park. There is also so much parking at TIAA Bank and Florida Blue during the weekends. At this point, there are empty lots on empty lots behind Park to the Interstate.

The challenge is I don't think the parking at those places will have an impact. The hotels downtown are busiest during the week (Save for an event weekend), so Florida Blue is unlikely to want to come off parking during the week.

Now, my personal feeling and experience is that business travelers are renting less cars and using Uber/Lyft much more especially in cities (I've seen stats back that up but I don't feel like finding them now).

Agreed. Rarely are business travelers renting cars nowadays with Uber/Lyft so convenient. Likewise, the best reason to stay here would be because you going to the Brooklyn TIAA Building, Florida Blue, FIS or a surrounding business. Most likely you would walk or Uber over for cheap.

For the short to mid term, there is a ton of vacant land between Park and the Interstate that could be used for Valet.

Or you're anywhere within 2 miles of downtown and you're a Marriott Loyalist! Whenever I book hotels, I always go to marriott.com or spg.com first. If I weer a business traveler coming here and needing to go downtown, I'd honestly think the Marriott site was broken with zero properties downtown.

The bottom line is this. This site plan is not good. There are ways to solve it. I hope the DDRB actually sticks to their guns.

[vicupstate]

Magnolia St could easily have on-street parking added.  It has nothing to do with FDOT.  Streets around Fresh Market already have on-street parking.

I was referring to Forest and/or Riverside.

[FlaBoy]

I wonder if that can be alleviated by an outdoor courtyard or seating area at the corner of Magnolia and Price? Residence Inn lobbies have areas where breakfast and happy hour drinks and appetizers are served for guests. I don't know how this model's floor plan lays out but perhaps there's a chance that this dining area could be located at the SE corner of the building.

This is a great idea. This building is critical to creating something worthwhile at Unity Plaza long term. You screw this up, I fear Unity Plaza will be second rate for a long time. 

Keep the buildings between Price and Forest. Maybe they can utilize some surface level parking two blocks away behind Park. There is also so much parking at TIAA Bank and Florida Blue during the weekends. At this point, there are empty lots on empty lots behind Park to the Interstate.

The challenge is I don't think the parking at those places will have an impact. The hotels downtown are busiest during the week (Save for an event weekend), so Florida Blue is unlikely to want to come off parking during the week.

Now, my personal feeling and experience is that business travelers are renting less cars and using Uber/Lyft much more especially in cities (I've seen stats back that up but I don't feel like finding them now).

Agreed. Rarely are business travelers renting cars nowadays with Uber/Lyft so convenient. Likewise, the best reason to stay here would be because you going to the Brooklyn TIAA Building, Florida Blue, FIS or a surrounding business. Most likely you would walk or Uber over for cheap.

For the short to mid term, there is a ton of vacant land between Park and the Interstate that could be used for Valet.

Or you're anywhere within 2 miles of downtown and you're a Marriott Loyalist! Whenever I book hotels, I always go to marriott.com or spg.com first. If I weer a business traveler coming here and needing to go downtown, I'd honestly think the Marriott site was broken with zero properties downtown.

The bottom line is this. This site plan is not good. There are ways to solve it. I hope the DDRB actually sticks to their guns.

Hopefully, you will have the Courtyard in the Trio to choose from too and maybe another one if the rumors are true.