Curry, Khan, and Hart Bridge

[jaxrox]

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-10-16/city-approves-15-million-hart-bridge-ramp-demolition-which-it-now-says-will

So is all this expensive redevelopment really and truly necessary? I almost posted this under politics board.
It just has a political feel to it, I.M.H.O.. Maybe I really don't know what I am talking about, as I am not an engineer or architect. What do y'all think about this?
Does this project need to happen for public safety reasons? Will it really bring in $500million in investments that will benefit downtown?

[Tacachale]

^There was a thread about this already; perhaps this can be merged there.

The Hart Bridge ramps do hamstring development in that area and aren't necessary. They're also increasingly a safety issue as the bridge ages. There has been talk of development in the Shipyards/Metro Park that won't be possible with the ramps there. So, they need to come down sooner or later. But, there's a question as to whether it should be a priority now, given the cost and other needs we have.

[JaxNative68]

After listening to Melissa Ross' show this morning. I am guessing this bridge will be up for renaming soon. Seems like the founder of our city had a dark past.

[jcjohnpaint]

Eventually they are coming down.  They serve no purpose and would be much more to reconstruct when necessary.  Too many reasons not to remove it. 

[Snaketoz]

I think the people driving over the Hart bridge to the central and western parts of downtown will now have to creep along waiting for the traffic signals that are sure to come.  Wasn't that the reason the overpasses were built to begin with?  This is a totally public funded gift for the fat cats.  That money could be better spent on truly public needs.

[remc86007]

Sometimes what helps the "fat cats" helps the common person too. If we had a thriving, redeveloped shipyards, all of Jacksonville would benefit.

[thelakelander]

I think the people driving over the Hart bridge to the central and western parts of downtown will now have to creep along waiting for the traffic signals that are sure to come.  Wasn't that the reason the overpasses were built to begin with?  This is a totally public funded gift for the fat cats.  That money could be better spent on truly public needs.

No, the viaduct was originally built to go over the industrial yards that lined the river for much of the city's history. If the road would have been built at grade, during the 60s, it would have negatively impacted industrial operations that it would have severed in half.

[KenFSU]

Meanwhile, we still haven't even gotten a proper estimate for how much it will cost to remediate the Shipyards and Metro Park.

I feel like we should get a price tag for cleanup before we start spending money to make the way for development.

If it's going to cost more money to clean up the Shipyards, Metro Park, and the parcels that the ramps currently stand above than the city can afford or Iguana is willing to spend, we should probably cool our jets on prioritizing the demolition of those ramps.

[thelakelander]

It will be years before that bridge comes down. However, the lobbying and positioning for funding should be happening now.

[Snaketoz]

Sometimes what helps the "fat cats" helps the common person too. If we had a thriving, redeveloped shipyards, all of Jacksonville would benefit.

OK, I get it.  Let "Trickle Down Economics" come in to play.  Has anyone thought that vehicle traffic and pedestrians don't mix well?  Keeping the traffic from across the river moving above the pedestrians below, will actually be safer.  Jacksonville has a terrible pedestrians hit by vehicles rate.  If you want to make the area a busy entertainment center, move traffic to a few large, well lit and secure parking areas and have shuttles at regular schedules take people to the area.  I know it's against all we now know and like, but we need to change our outdated views. 

[thelakelander]

^Check out San Francisco's Embarcadero. It worked out great there and it facilitates a level of pedestrian, transit, bike and vehicle traffic DT Jax will never see. Also, part of this particular proposal coverts the east section of the viaduct into an elevated bike/ped link.

[vicupstate]

I agree that the ramps need to go at least at some point.  They are not a safety hazard currently and the port issue is minor. Obviously this is getting fast tracked, albeit that is relative when it comes to highway infrastructure. This will be a huge boon to Khan and as such should count mightily in the 'contribution' that the city is making to redevelop the Shipyards. 

My fear is that the various governments will get the full bill for ramp demo, remediation and a Convention Center and then Khan will probably still get the land for next to nothing. He needs to have financial skin in this game beyond the cost of his new buildings alone. 

[thelakelander]

Yes, the proposal is to put you out right on Gator Bowl Blvd, just south of Talleyrand. I assume Gator Bowl Boulevard/Bay Street would be reconstructed as well, given the price tag. Economically, it makes sense assuming the ramps are nearing the point where it's time to reconstruct them (ex. I-95 Overland Bridge project). Neither Gator Bowl Blvd or the viaduct carries enough traffic to justify spending a couple hundred million for reconstruction. Mathews Bridge...yes. Hart Bridge ramps...no.

[Transman]

The plan is to 6-lane Gator Bowl Blvd./Bay Street.  I think they have $50 million for the project cost.  We really help the area, more bars and other amenities can then have access, like Intuition Ale Works.  After it is complete then you can just take the Hart Bridge from Beach and be down at the Ale house.

[jaxlongtimer]

Looking at Google maps, in addition to ramping down to Gator Bowl Blvd/Talleyrand/Bay Street, how about having Hart's MLK Expressway connector interchange with the end of the Matthews Bridge allowing Hart traffic to also access State & Union via the existing infrastructure off the Matthews Bridge.  This would give Hart drivers a second pathway into Downtown.