Jacksonville City Council President calls for Confederate memorials to be moved

[thelakelander]

^Just to follow up on this, 16,000 African-Americans ended up leaving Jax between 1916 and 1917, due to economic conditions, white militancy, Jim Crow laws and northern companies using these things against Jax to recruit them to relocate to the northeast. That type of exodus back then was pretty insane and it still would be today.

[thelakelander]

A good link summarizing the change in Jax's culture in the early 20th century:

Your book also focuses on the question of race relations and the opportunities (or lack thereof) that Jacksonville presented for its African-American residents. What led James Weldon Johnson to remark that in the 19th century Jacksonville was "a good town for Negroes", while later it became a "one hundred percent Cracker town"?

In the 1880s when Johnson made the first statement, "a good town for Negroes", the city had just annexed the predominantly black suburb of LaVilla and blacks with organized labor had elected a Republican city council with 5 black council members, plus a black magistrate. There were black police and fire fighters. Segregation and discrimination existed, but whites generally had a sense of nobless oblige toward blacks, seen in their sponsoring Johnson to pass the bar and become the first African American member in the state. By 1907 when Johnson made the second remark about a "one hundred percent cracker town," the state had suspended local government replacing black representatives with whites; and passed the white primary and poll tax laws. Blacks were squeezed out of  municipal goverment by gerrymandering and simply dismissing fire fighters and police. This shift in attitude reflected similar shifts across the South of voter disfranchisement, the segregation of public accomodations and Jim Crow. The shift reflected a hardening of attitudes by whites influenced by Populist efforts to organized poor white and black voters in the depression 1890s, the manipulation of poor white voters, and the violent attacks against blacks who attempted to vote.

http://theurbanologist.com/post/22654442708/a-new-south-city-a-conversation-with-jim-crooks

[FlaBoy]

I'll go with Jim Crow. 1914 was at the height of a cultural shift (for the worse, IMO) in Jacksonville's history. There was a reason most of Jacksonville's enlightened black population headed north and the silent film industry migrated west around the same time.  If Dignan wasn't a Catholic, that park would have had a much better chance of keeping its original name, regardless of a reunion taking place there.

Confederate Park History

Confederate Park is located near downtown, in the Springfield area of north Jacksonville. First named Dignan Park, for a chairman of the Board of Public Works, it opened in 1907 and contained the City's first supervised playground. The United Confederate Veterans chose Jacksonville as the site for their annual reunion in 1914, and the park as the site for a monument honoring the Women of the Southland. Five months after the reunion of an estimated 8,000 former Confederate soldiers, the City renamed the park, and the monument was erected the next year. During the early decades, citizens came from all over Jacksonville to attend cultural events at the park or to see the beautiful Rose Arbor. Visitors strolled along the lovely Hogans Creek Promenade that opened in 1930, and in more recent years attend events sponsored by the Springfield Improvement Association & Woman's Club.

But yeah, this quote is a good example of telling history in a way that doesn't reflect the overall picture.  It's sort of like presenting the word "plantation" in a positive way.  It's only positive if you when viewed from a perspective of the population that resided in the house and not the field. Needless to say, we've found a way to include plantation in the name of many of our most upscale suburban developments.

The era of the teens was full of tumult in many ways because racists had an ally in the White House with Woodrow Wilson who re-segregated the military for the first time since the Civil War and propped up Jim Crow ideals in the federal government.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/wilson-legacy-racism/417549/

[Fallen Buckeye]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesvilles-aftermath-jacksonville-reassesses-confederate-monuments-statues-181542047.html

May be the damn Yankee in me, but I don't think that these statues and so on put Jax in a good light. Putting them in a museum seems like a fair compromise to me. We could replace the statue of the confederate soldier with something innocuous like a stone monument to the ten commandments or something. 

[BridgeTroll]

You don't suppose there is a cause and effect?  Perhaps the decision to tear down the monuments became a rallying cause for the KKK and nazi's.  Washington and Jefferson were slave holders... I wonder what might happen should some decide those memorials be torn down or renamed...

Because owning slaves in an 18th century colony and killing your own countrymen in 1860 to defend slavery is the same thing.  Also, Jefferson was an advocate for abolition so it's a tad more complicated than you make it, considering he was a founding father, not a confederate leader of no particular import to the USA. The slave-owning president argument is not a good comparison by any objective reasoning and serves to distract.

Perhaps tearing stuff down is a rallying cry currently.  But we should do exactly like the gov. of VA- tell these fools to go home- they are not welcome in civilized society and then keep ripping them out.

"Therefore, I call on the immediate removal of President George Washington and President Andrew Jackson names from the parks...

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/jackson-washington-park-protest-presidents-slave-owners/

Pastor Wants Presidents' Names Removed From Washington, Jackson Parks Over Ties To Slavery
August 16, 2017 10:13 AM

CHICAGO (CBS) — A Chicago pastor has asked the Emanuel administration to remove the names of two presidents who owned slaves from parks on the South Side, saying the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park.

Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington's name removed from the park.

"When I see that, I see a person who fought for the liberties, and I see people that fought for the justice and freedom of white America, because at that moment, we were still chattel slavery, and was three-fifths of humans," he said. "Some people out here ask me, say 'Well, you know, he taught his slaves to read.' That's almost sad; the equivalent of someone who kidnaps you, that you gave them something to eat."

Dukes said, even though Washington was the nation's first president and led the American army in the Revolutionary War, he's no hero to the black community.

"There's no way plausible that we would even think that they would erect a Malcolm X statue in Mount Greenwood, Lincoln Park, or any of that. Not that say Malcolm X was a bad guy; they just would not go for it," he said. "Native Americans would not even think about putting up a Custer statue, because of the atrocities that he plagued upon Native Americans. And for them to say to us 'just accept it' is actually insulting."

The pastor also said President Andrew Jackson's name should be removed from nearby Jackson Park, because he also was a slave owner. He said he's not necessarily asking the city rename the parks altogether. He suggested Washington Park could be named after former Mayor Harold Washington, and Jackson Park could be named after civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson or singer Michael Jackson.

Dukes said he's not trying to erase history. He said black people should be able to decide who is and is not honored in their communities.

"I think we should be able to identify and decide who we declare heroes in or communities, because we have to tell the stories to our children of who these persons are," he said.

He said parks, statues, or other monuments honoring Presidents Washington and Jackson might be appropriate elsewhere, but not in black neighborhoods.

"In an African-American community, it's a slap in the face and it's a disgrace for them to honor someone who was a slave owner.

Dukes said he has sent letters to Mayor Rahm Emanuel and the Chicago Park District asking them to change the names of Washington and Jackson parks. He shared the letter on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/bishopjames.dukes/posts/10212365129777148

"I am feeling ambivalent that I would have to walk my child, attend a parade or enjoy a game of softball in a park that commemorates the memory of a slave owner," he wrote. "Therefore, I call on the immediate removal of President George Washington and President Andrew Jackson names from the parks located on the southeast side of Chicago. They should not have the distinct honor of being held as heroes when they actively participated in the slave trade."

Representatives for the mayor did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

A Chicago Park District spokeswoman pointed to the city's formal process for renaming parks, which allows anyone to submit a request to the superintendent. The Park District board may vote on any such request after a 45-day public comment period.

[jaxjags]

Unfortunately it sounds like a new civil war is brewing.

[jlmann]

wow case closed

you guys were right- this one random guy in Chicago shows pretty clearly we better just leave everything as is

[BridgeTroll]

wow case closed

you guys were right- this one random guy in Chicago shows pretty clearly we better just leave everything as is

Nope.  But this was completely predictable... and it will not just be "one random guy".

[jaxjags]

wow case closed

you guys were right- this one random guy in Chicago shows pretty clearly we better just leave everything as is

Nope.  But this was completely predictable... and it will not just be "one random guy".

Yes, Takem Down Jax has both the Fuller Warren and Hart Bridge on the lists.

[BridgeTroll]

wow case closed

you guys were right- this one random guy in Chicago shows pretty clearly we better just leave everything as is

Nope.  But this was completely predictable... and it will not just be "one random guy".

Yes, Takem Down Jax has both the Fuller Warren and Hart Bridge on the lists.

Lol... see... one random guy...

[jlmann]

cool stories yall.

so we do nothing re: confed monuments?  hard to tell since you offer no solution

who cares what people put on their lists?  There isn't popular support for those extreme positions from the people you referenced and thus they will go nowhere

your statements amount to the "pretty soon they'll be marrying goats" argument against gay marriage. 

[Cheshire Cat]

A solution has been offered by City Council President Anna Brosche, which is a relocation of the statues off of public land to a privately owned space.  In Jacksonville either you agree with that or you don't but a suggestion is now on the record and moving forward.

[downtownbrown]

wow case closed

you guys were right- this one random guy in Chicago shows pretty clearly we better just leave everything as is

Nope.  But this was completely predictable... and it will not just be "one random guy".

Yes, Takem Down Jax has both the Fuller Warren and Hart Bridge on the lists.

I wish they would add Berkman 2 on their list...

[Josh]

A very telling graph.

A timeline of when these confederate monuments were created.

https://imgur.com/OjMWPzm

[acme54321]

A very telling graph

https://imgur.com/OjMWPzm

What does the represent?  Needs more context.