Mayor Curry, top staffer take trip on Jaguars owner Shad Khan’s jet to talk DT

[thelakelander]

Mayor Lenny Curry and his top administration official quietly hopped on Jaguars owner Shad Khan's private jet Monday morning and departed Jacksonville for a two-day trip to St. Louis and Baltimore to take care of official and political work, according to details confirmed Monday night by the mayor's office.

Curry and his chief administrative officer, Sam Mousa, were joined by at least one other passenger — Jaguars president Mark Lamping — as they meet with people in both cities to discuss downtown development ideas and for Curry to handle unspecified political business. The trip was not disclosed on Curry's public schedule, which is made available every day as a hard copy in a side office on the fourth floor of City Hall. As of Tuesday morning, the schedule only showed a series of private appointments for the two days; there was no mention of downtown development meetings.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-07-25/mayor-curry-top-staffer-take-trip-jaguars-owner-shad-khan-s-jet-discuss

[jaxjaguar]

Hmm, both cities are very similar to Jax in relation to their layout/bodies of water. They both have convention centers and hotels within a stones throw of their professional sports stadiums. St Louis has the massive park on the Mississippi River that is home to the arch. It's a total pipe dream, but it'd be cool to get a nationally recognizable monument like that.

[thelakelander]

Both of their stadiums are also closer to their downtown cores and directly served with rapid fixed mass transit. In addition, both are about as dense and pedestrian scale as they come for second tier urban areas in this country. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

[MusicMan]

"It's a total pipe dream, but it'd be cool to get a nationally recognizable monument like that."

In Jax it would have to be a giant Hula Hoop, symbolizing our downtown development plans, which according to the plaque at the base of the monument  "goes round and round and round, never actually getting anywhere." 

[Jim]

Hmm, both cities are very similar to Jax in relation to their layout/bodies of water. They both have convention centers and hotels within a stones throw of their professional sports stadiums. St Louis has the massive park on the Mississippi River that is home to the arch. It's a total pipe dream, but it'd be cool to get a nationally recognizable monument like that.

We could only dream of Baltimore level density.

Pick any road within 3 miles of the CBD in Baltimore and zoom in with Google Street view.  We don't even have a full block with that level density and they have literally thousands.

[RattlerGator]

We could only dream have nightmares of Baltimore level density.

There's a reason no place south of Baltimore - Washington has that kind of mess. It's called plenty of available land, high temperatures and high humidity.

Get a clue.

Leave those balls and chains delivered by density, density, density behind.

My suspicion is this: Populous is salivating for the opportunity to showcase a project along the Jacksonville riverfront that creatively makes use of our river and imaginatively ties in a convention center with the Sports and Entertainment District but also includes a linear focus that takes us from that area down towards the Landing.

St. Louis and Baltimore are really secondary on this trip, the real deal is a pitch by Populous in Kansas City the Mayor Curry and Mousa on what we can get in Big Duval.

These are incredibly exciting times in Jacksonville. At a minimum, I think we get the kind of facility at Ballpark Village in St. Louis even if scaled back a bit:

http://ballparkdigest.com/2016/10/25/cardinals-unveil-ballpark-village-expansion/

Throw in a convention center and Four Seasons Hotel and the encouragement of linear connections for the 1.2 miles from the TV stations down to the Jacksonville Landing area, including a new Metropolitan Park and USS Adams area. Speed up that JTA Pedestrian / Skyway bridge linking Khan Land with Rummell Land and we could have something truly spectacular.

Man, hush the hell up about density and Jake Godbold. Just build it !!!

[thelakelander]

We could only dream have nightmares of Baltimore level density.

There's a reason no place south of Baltimore - Washington has that kind of mess. It's called plenty of available land, high temperatures and high humidity.

Get a clue.

Leave those balls and chains delivered by density, density, density behind.

Haha, you're wrong again. Miami, New Orleans, Savannah, Charleston, Richmond are all examples of such density. Heck, Miami is denser than DC and Baltimore and is still one of the most rapidly growing and densifying cities in the country. It's also five hours south of us, which eliminates the weather argument. With that said, it's obvious this is less about those cities and more about Khan's plans for investment in the downtown area. However, due to their sports facilities being a lot closer in their proximity to the heart of those cities, they do have complementing development serving as a good example of what Khan may be envisioning for his project.

[Jim]

We could only dream have nightmares of Baltimore level density.

There's a reason no place south of Baltimore - Washington has that kind of mess. It's called plenty of available land, high temperatures and high humidity.

Miami would like a word with you about temps and humidity.

Also, northern cities are dense because they were built before the automobile age.  Mobility is why southern cities are more spread out, not land, temps or humidity.

[KenFSU]

You're leaving out the best part, the picture:



Interesting RG, two of the first things that popped into my head when I read about the cities they were visiting for downtown development ideas were Ballpark Village (St. Louis) and Populous (KC).

Mark Lamping oversaw the Ballpark Village project in St. Louis. He's very proud of that project, and you've got to think that him and Khan are thinking about something similar Jags-themed in their proposed "mixed use/entertainment" section of the Shipyards, just to the west of Khan's proposed hotel.



I wouldn't complain. It'd be a major draw in that area, a great addition to the game day experience, and even a great place to watch away games. Plus, you'd get some greenspace, like everyone wants.

Here are a few pics.

[Tacachale]

It's worth pointing out that baseball and football stadiums are pretty different animals. MLB stadiums have 81 games a year that draw 20k+ people, plus potential playoffs and other events. Football only has 10 home games (9 for us) and playoffs/other events. MLB stadiums can anchor a district on their own more than football stadiums can.

[BridgeTroll]

Here is another... currently under construction...

The Packers put up 65 mil... other partners fork over another 80 or so...

http://www.packers.com/lambeau-field/titletown-district.html

TITLETOWN DISTRICT

The Green Bay Packers announced details on Aug. 20, 2015 for the master plan for the Titletown District, a destination area to be created on approximately 34 acres of land immediately west of Lambeau Field.

Building upon the success of Lambeau Field's major redevelopment in 2003 and subsequent expansion and renovation completed in 2015, the planned Titletown District will maximize its unique location to attract more visitors to the area, spur additional regional economic growth, offer new amenities to residents and complement the greater Green Bay area's draw as an excellent location to live, work and play.

Central to Titletown will be a park with year-round, diverse programming that will feature fitness-related activities, cultural opportunities, versatile space for a variety of uses, and festive gameday action. The park's main attraction will be a sledding hill with tubing lanes and fantastic views of Lambeau Field, located in an area of the park that includes a dynamic ice skating trail and pond. The sledding hill's slope, beginning at a height of 45 feet, will serve as a roof over two buildings, one of which will house a warming lodge and snack bar on the ground level and event space on the second level, and the other will contain skate and tube rental operations. The skating trail will artfully wind underneath the structure and connect to an open skating area. Ice making, snowmaking and grooming equipment will ensure an extended tubing and skating season in the park. In the warmer months, the hill's sloped green space will provide a unique area for many activities.

In addition to the sledding hill and skating rink, the four other components of phase one work in Titletown's park include a plaza, an activity area, a playground and a sports field.

"The park in Titletown will be a wonderful asset for our community, as well as an appealing attraction for visitors and future residents alike," said Packers President/CEO Mark Murphy. "These updates for phase one reflect the evolved work of our design team, as well as the input from many community stakeholders. We're excited to see it come to life."

In total, the sledding hill's tubing lanes will stretch 300 feet from start to finish. Two buildings will provide the slope for the hill, with the main building housing a warming lodge and snack bar on the ground level and event space on the second level. A second building will contain skate and tube rental operations. The total skating surface area, including the trail and pond area, is 14,200 square feet, with the pond portion approximately the size of a hockey rink.

[JBTripper]

It's worth pointing out that baseball and football stadiums are pretty different animals. MLB stadiums have 81 games a year that draw 20k+ people, plus potential playoffs and other events. Football only has 10 home games (9 for us) and playoffs/other events. MLB stadiums can anchor a district on their own more than football stadiums can.

There's a baseball stadium in the area, too. The Jumbo Shrimp draw an average of 5,000 fans for 72 home games. It's not close to MLB scale, but it's not nothing. There's also an arena with a new hockey team, an ABA basketball team that inexplicably draws fans on a consistent basis, and concerts and other events throughout the year. And a new amphitheater. All that on top of the Jaguars.

That ought to be more than enough to serve as an anchor.

[Jim]

Now do any of those have a convention center component?

[Tacachale]

It's worth pointing out that baseball and football stadiums are pretty different animals. MLB stadiums have 81 games a year that draw 20k+ people, plus potential playoffs and other events. Football only has 10 home games (9 for us) and playoffs/other events. MLB stadiums can anchor a district on their own more than football stadiums can.

There's a baseball stadium in the area, too. The Jumbo Shrimp draw an average of 5,000 fans for 72 home games. It's not close to MLB scale, but it's not nothing. There's also an arena with a new hockey team, an ABA basketball team that inexplicably draws fans on a consistent basis, and concerts and other events throughout the year. And a new amphitheater. All that on top of the Jaguars.

That ought to be more than enough to serve as an anchor.

Those are all additional pieces, not anchors on their own. My point is that a (MLB) baseball field on its own is an anchor, a football stadium not necessarily so.

[thelakelander]

It's worth pointing out that baseball and football stadiums are pretty different animals. MLB stadiums have 81 games a year that draw 20k+ people, plus potential playoffs and other events. Football only has 10 home games (9 for us) and playoffs/other events. MLB stadiums can anchor a district on their own more than football stadiums can.

It's also worth noting that Ballpark Village is one block away from City Garden and the core of downtown St. Louis. In other words, it's supported by a lot more than just baseball. It's also a Cordish development and pretty much the same thing you'll find from Cordish in Downtown Louisville and a host of other cities. If that's what's Lamping is envisioning, it's basically a modern spin on what the Landing should have probably been.

Now do any of those have a convention center component?

On the other side of downtown St. Louis, their convention center is attached to the Edward Jones Dome. It also has a theatre, so RG is wrong on that one as well. It wasn't enough to keep the Rams in town but that complex is also right on Washington Street. Washington is a pretty cool pedestrian friendly street with LRT running under it, subway style.

Here is another... currently under construction...

The Packers put up 65 mil... other partners fork over another 80 or so...

http://www.packers.com/lambeau-field/titletown-district.html

Titletown's plans are pretty cool, although they are adding the type of density and pedestrian scale connectivity RG claims Jax should not be concerned with. It's got a ton of frontage on an arterial highway, so it can pull visitors in outside of football season. Dropping the Hart Bridge down to grade would do wonders for the stadium district because right now through traffic 100% bypasses the area.




Patriot's Place is another model. It's a mixed use complex with a movie theater, hotel, hospital and office buildings as anchors, facing US 1 on one side and Gillette Stadium on the other side. It's basically a smaller version of a SJTC. It's mix of non-football uses help sustain it outside of NFL season. So they have their examples to pull from. Some are walkable and some aren't. My guess is Jax's will fall somewhere inbetween.