The Landing owners issue ultimatum for future development

[acme54321]

I've never once had anybody turn down a boat ride in the St John's because the water is yucky and brown. 

[CityLife]

I've never once had anybody turn down a boat ride in the St John's because the water is yucky and brown. 

People don't turn down free food from McDonalds either. Doesn't mean they don't prefer M Shack.....

[Tacachale]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

^Methinks you're filtering based on your own preferences and experiences. As this discussion is about people using the river, I don't know why we should exclude anyone who does.

At any rate, here's the same list minus Class A boats (and canoes). The numbers are different but the patterns are mostly the same. Big cities have the lowest, suburbs/exurbs are higher, and rural counties have the highest rates. There's still not a clear difference between coastal and interior areas, although inland Panhandle counties don't usually rank as high as when small boats are included (several North Central Florida and Heartland counties rank higher). Only a few counties changed their rank more than 4 spots. More counties that are tourist/retirement meccas are higher on the list. Duval remains comparable to the other big counties (Palm Beach now outranks us), and our suburban counties remain ranked particularly high.

Orange (Orlando) - 1.1%
Osceola (Kissimmee)- 1.3%
Broward (Ft. Lauderdale) - 1.5%
Miami-Dade - 1.6%
Duval - 1.7%
Palm Beach - 1.8%
Hillsborough (Tampa) - 1.9%
Sumter (North Central Florida) - 2%
Leon (Tallahassee) - 2.3%
Seminole (Sanford) - 2.3%
Alachua (Gainesville)- 2.4%
Gadsden (inland Panhandle)- 2.4%
Polk (Lakeland)- 2.5%
Pasco (Tampa Bay Area)- 2.8%
Hamilton (inland Panhandle) – 2.8%
Sarasota - 2.8%
St. Lucie - 2.9%
Escambia (Pensacola) - 3%
Hernando (Tampa Bay area)- 3%
Flagler - 3.1%
Hardee (inland Heartland) - 3.1%
Madison - 3.2%
Manatee (Bradenton, SW Florida) - 3.2%
Marion (Ocala) - 3.2%
Volusia (Daytona) - 3.2%
Suwanee (North Central Florida) – 3.3%
Union (North Central Florida) – 3.4%
Brevard (Space Coast) - 3.5%
De Soto (inland Heartland) – 3.5%
Holmes (inland Panhandle) - 3.5%
Pinellas (St. Petersburg) - 3.5%
Columbia (North Central Florida) – 3.6%
Washington (inland Panhandle) - 3.7%
Calhoun (inland Panhandle) - 3.8%
St. Johns- 4%
Jackson (inland Panhandle) - 4.2%
Jefferson (Panhandle) – 4.2%
Lake (Clermont, Central Florida) - 4.2%
Clay-4.3%
Collier (Naples) – 4.4%
Liberty (inland Panhandle) - 4.4%
Walton (coastal Panhandle) - 4.4%
Nassau - 4.5%
Baker - 4.7%
Indian River - 4.7%
Lee (Fort Meyers/Cape Coral) - 4.7%
Santa Rosa (coastal Panhandle) – 4.7%
Hendry (inland Heartland) - 4.8%
Highlands (inland Heartland) – 5.3%
Lafayette (North Central Florida) - 5.4%
Okaloosa (Destin, coastal Panhandle) - 5.5%
Bay (coastal Panhandle) - 5.6%
Bradford (Starke, North Central Florida) - 5.7%
Gilchrist (North Central Florida) - 5.8%
Glades (inland Heartland) – 5.9%
Putnam (Palatka) - 6.6%
Levy (coastal Big Bend) - 6.8%
Citrus (coastal Big Bend) 7.4%
Martin (Stuart) - 8.4%
Okeechobee (inland Heartland) - 8.9%
Wakulla (coastal Panhandle) - 9.3%
Charlotte (Punta Gorda, SW Florida) - 9.4%
Taylor (coastal Big Bend/Panhandle) - 9.4%
Dixie (coastal Big Bend) - 9.9%
Gulf (coastal Panhandle) - 10.1%
Franklin (coastal Panhandle) - 18.4%
Monroe (Keys) - 28.7%

[acme54321]

I've never once had anybody turn down a boat ride in the St John's because the water is yucky and brown. 

People don't turn down free food from McDonalds either. Doesn't mean they don't prefer M Shack.....

What?  You're proving my point.  If people want to go boating the color of the river water isn't going to stop them.  Just like eating a burger at McDonald's or Mshack, they're hungry and going to eat either way.

[Noone]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

So how does everyone feel about Making a Scene and being All In with SUP and kayaking in the 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone from the Fuller Warren to the Mathews Bridge. The Landing is cool for larger Watercraft but what about the smaller Watercraft and Non Motorized?


DIA Board meeting today at 2pm. Lynwood Roberts room. Should be televised. COJ.net.  Open to the Public. Public Comment is allowed.

[Adam White]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

So how does everyone feel about Making a Scene and being All In with SUP and kayaking in the 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone from the Fuller Warren to the Mathews Bridge. The Landing is cool for larger Watercraft but what about the smaller Watercraft and Non Motorized?


DIA Board meeting today at 2pm. Lynwood Roberts room. Should be televised. COJ.net.  Open to the Public. Public Comment is allowed.

Sounds like a plan. After all, we don't want to miss the boat and end up like those Baltimore guys.

[BridgeTroll]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

So how does everyone feel about Making a Scene and being All In with SUP and kayaking in the 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone from the Fuller Warren to the Mathews Bridge. The Landing is cool for larger Watercraft but what about the smaller Watercraft and Non Motorized?


DIA Board meeting today at 2pm. Lynwood Roberts room. Should be televised. COJ.net.  Open to the Public. Public Comment is allowed.

Sounds like a plan. After all, we don't want to miss the boat and end up like those Baltimore guys.

Please do not feed the pigeons...

[Adam White]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

So how does everyone feel about Making a Scene and being All In with SUP and kayaking in the 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone from the Fuller Warren to the Mathews Bridge. The Landing is cool for larger Watercraft but what about the smaller Watercraft and Non Motorized?


DIA Board meeting today at 2pm. Lynwood Roberts room. Should be televised. COJ.net.  Open to the Public. Public Comment is allowed.

Sounds like a plan. After all, we don't want to miss the boat and end up like those Baltimore guys.

Please do not feed the pigeons...

WWTBGD?

[RattlerGator]

The St Johns River is a blackwater river.  You cannot change that unless you remove all vegetation nearby the entire river and its tributaries and significantly alter the chemical composition of about 2 dozen elements that naturally occur in it.

Am I missing something here? I've never heard any discussion about the SJR having some sort of aesthetic issue from the perceived color of the river water. I did a quick check on Google and I'm not even sure the designation of "blackwater river" insinuates that. I've certainly never noticed any issue with the color of the river water. Black Creek in Clay County? Okay. But the Saint Johns ? ? ?

[RattlerGator]

I'll also say it seems to me Sleiman may or may not quite comprehend what's about to happen down in the Sports & Entertainment District, but he is not in a position to be talking yang. That much I know. He best wake up and smell the coffee.

[spuwho]

Toney Slieman responds to COJ:

'Truth will come out soon' Toney Sleiman vows in response to city statement

Per the JBJ:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/06/21/truth-will-come-out-soon-toney-sleiman-vows-in.html

Less than a week after Sleiman Enterprises announced it could soon abandon any near-term plans for redevelopment of The Jacksonville Landing because of a lack of City Hall support, Toney Sleiman pushed back against the mayor's office response that the longtime landowner was at fault.

Marsha Oliver, Mayor's Office director of public affairs, dismissed a Sleiman Enterprise letter that accused the city of "lip service" to redevelopment efforts, putting blame on Sleiman Enterprises for talks stalling.

"Since taking office, Mayor Lenny Curry has continued to demonstrate his commitment to the development and improvement of downtown Jacksonville," she said in a statement. "As a notable and recognized landmark, the Landing should be flourishing and contributing to the area's economic growth and success. The mayor and his administration have met with Mr. Sleiman on several occasions to discuss opportunities and options for improvement. Sleiman Enterprises has demonstrated no interest in our offer and solution. Sleiman Enterprises is the obstacle. It is clear that the Landing is being mismanaged. The Mayor will not ask taxpayers to bail out a mismanaged development. Because there is pending litigation, there is no additional information to provide at this time."

Sleiman has said that if the city does not get "behind development right away" than he will be forced to extend long-term leases at The Landing, which would close the window on development talks for at least a decade.

"Here's the problem, the city owns the land and I own the building," he said. "I can't do anything without the city's approval. For 15 years, I have been trying to to get it done. The truth will come out soon."

Sleiman Enterprises full statement is below.

Nearly 15 years ago when Sleiman Enterprises bought the Jacksonville Landing, there was all kinds of excitement. While we're still excited about Jacksonville's iconic venue's potential, our hands are tied by politics and external forces that don't want progress.

We are now at a critical point in the Landing's life cycle. We must either undertake a complete redevelopment of the property or enter into new long-term leases of the current facilities to maintain the Landing's economic viability. The two options are incompatible with one another.

We agree with most civic leaders that a complete redevelopment of the Jacksonville Landing is best for our city and for the Landing. However, without the support of the city of Jacksonville, no redevelopment can take place. Since the city owns the land and we lease the building, we must collaborate.

For 15 years, we've worked with the city to try to make the Jacksonville Landing great. While downtown is always an administrative priority, the Landing seems to get more lip service than actual support.That lack of political support is the reason that the original developer, Rouse, sold us the Landing for pennies on the dollar.

Our company, Sleiman Enterprises, has invested more than $1.5 million in past redevelopment efforts. We even supported the city's most recent 2015 redevelopment plans.

In our company's 60 years of history, we've made significant contributions to our local retail industry and economic development. We want to do the same thing at the Landing.

If the public agrees that a full redevelopment of the Jacksonville Landing is best for the city, we ask that people communicate that to their city council representatives. If the city does not get behind redevelopment right away, the opportunity will be lost for another 10–15 years because signing new long-term leases will prevent redevelopment.

[Noone]

Taca, your data is essentially irrelevant in terms of this discussion. I took out the Class A Boats (below 15') because these are mostly Jon boats and small solo or 2 person fishing vessels. These people are hunting fish inshore and will go wherever (see ownership rates of inland county's). They also generally don't frequent waterfront dining/entertainment establishments. In other words, they aren't cruising, sand bar hopping, going to restaurants, etc.

As I said earlier, I excluded PBC to Dade, because it's not apples to apples. Many of the upper income residents here have boats registered in the northeast or keep their boats in the Keys or Caribbean.

So how does everyone feel about Making a Scene and being All In with SUP and kayaking in the 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone from the Fuller Warren to the Mathews Bridge. The Landing is cool for larger Watercraft but what about the smaller Watercraft and Non Motorized?


DIA Board meeting today at 2pm. Lynwood Roberts room. Should be televised. COJ.net.  Open to the Public. Public Comment is allowed.

Sounds like a plan. After all, we don't want to miss the boat and end up like those Baltimore guys.

Please do not feed the pigeons...

WWTBGD?

+1
That's funny. You know the issues.

[Jim]

The St Johns River is a blackwater river.  You cannot change that unless you remove all vegetation nearby the entire river and its tributaries and significantly alter the chemical composition of about 2 dozen elements that naturally occur in it.

Am I missing something here? I've never heard any discussion about the SJR having some sort of aesthetic issue from the perceived color of the river water. I did a quick check on Google and I'm not even sure the designation of "blackwater river" insinuates that. I've certainly never noticed any issue with the color of the river water. Black Creek in Clay County? Okay. But the Saint Johns ? ? ?

It's designated as such on the St Johns River Wiki page and the list of blackwater rivers in the US Wiki page.  While certainly not an official designation, I can't find any other classifications.

[FlaBoy]

Mayor is definitely not backing down. From Twitter this morning:

1.The Jacksonville Landing is owned by the taxpayers of Jacksonville. Sleiman Enterprises leases the landing from the city.

https://twitter.com/lennycurry/status/877874266062049280

2.  Taxpayers deserve better for their investment & their asset.

https://twitter.com/lennycurry/status/877874583759503361


Things are getting interesting.

[KenFSU]

Mayor is definitely not backing down. From Twitter this morning:

1.The Jacksonville Landing is owned by the taxpayers of Jacksonville. Sleiman Enterprises leases the landing from the city.

https://twitter.com/lennycurry/status/877874266062049280

^Wait, I'm very confused.

So, to be clear, the city owns both the land under the landing and the actual shopping center?

And Sleiman - despite being listed as the 'owner" of the Landing - owns nothing, just leases the shopping center from the city?

Is this correct? I always thought that when Sleiman purchased the Landing, he actually, you know, purchased the Landing, with the caveat being that he leased the land underneath it from the city. 

Curry can't be right.