So far, Unity Plaza not bringing people together

[Noone]

Welcome to the Neighborhood.

Councilman Anderson requested 3 issues to be addressed.

3 Guys will get together and Fix it.
Aundra
Guy
Steve

Should be a follow up noticed meeting. Councilman Newby doesn't want to move. Stay positive.

Visit Jacksonville!

[thelakelander]

It will take more than those three to fix it.  The usage of Unity Plaza is a density problem. There's only two small apartment complexes and a hand full of residents in Brooklyn.  Gate Parkway is denser.  Brooklyn needs about 20 more 220 Riversides, as opposed to low density development like the Gate gas station on Forest, if we really want Unity Plaza to have consistent foot traffic.

[Jumpinjack]

There is no There there. Density won't help unless the Plaza becomes more than a car-centric restaurant venue.

[thelakelander]

No matter what you put in the park, it will struggle without density.  Density is what should surround the space, which will make it a pedestrian-centric venue, as opposed to car-centric.

[pierre]

Right. It is surrounded by empty lots. And across the street on the river side is a private parking lot.

There's almost no foot traffic.

[Jumpinjack]

Before Unity Plaza there was a community in place in Brooklyn. The remainder of the community exists with  tree shaded streets and older homes connected in a walkable grid to commercial places along Park Street and over the viaducts. The development put in its place is now barricaded on one side and facing onto a multilane highway on the other. Connections to the river, the older neighborhood, the commercial streets, downtown are fragile and daunting. When more people want to live there it will be because the place is liveable.

[Tacachale]

Before Unity Plaza there was a community in place in Brooklyn. The remainder of the community exists with  tree shaded streets and older homes connected in a walkable grid to commercial places along Park Street and over the viaducts. The development put in its place is now barricaded on one side and facing onto a multilane highway on the other. Connections to the river, the older neighborhood, the commercial streets, downtown are fragile and daunting. When more people want to live there it will be because the place is liveable.

At least in the area where Unity Plaza is now, there hadn't been a community in many years. Riverside Avenue was widened in the early 2000s and most of the homes were gone long before that. Even then, the number of remaining homes in the old area northwest of Park Street has been small for decades.

However, there's a pretty wide gap between what the developers promised with Riverside 220 (and received pretty substantial subsidies for), and what was actually built. Unity Plaza is case-in-point. The design was supposed to be much better and there was supposed to be a public-private partnership programming it. As it is, it's nice feature for people who live there, and something to walk through for people going from the parking lot to the restaurants. It would be one thing if they hadn't gotten millions in incentives from the city for the development.

[Captain Zissou]

However, there's a pretty wide gap between what the developers promised with Riverside 220 (and received pretty substantial subsidies for), and what was actually built. Unity Plaza is case-in-point. The design was supposed to be much better and there was supposed to be a public-private partnership programming it. As it is, it's nice feature for people who live there, and something to walk through for people going from the parking lot to the restaurants. It would be one thing if they hadn't gotten millions in incentives from the city for the development.

^ This!!

[KenFSU]

Right. It is surrounded by empty lots. And across the street on the river side is a private parking lot.

There's almost no foot traffic.

Not to mention the fact that the whole area is very poorly lit at night.

[vicupstate]

For a fraction of what was spent on this glorified retention pond had been spent in Hemming Plaza, a genuinely successful gathering spot could have been created.

As it always has, Coj thinks creating a 'pretty spot' is all it takes to create an successful urban setting. Remember the park across from the back side of the Library?  There was another pocket park created before that one too.  I guess they thought the third time would be the charm.   

[Tacachale]

For a fraction of what was spent on this glorified retention pond had been spent in Hemming Plaza, a genuinely successful gathering spot could have been created.

As it always has, Coj thinks creating a 'pretty spot' is all it takes to create an successful urban setting. Remember the park across from the back side of the Library?  There was another pocket park created before that one too.  I guess they thought the third time would be the charm.   

Not really what happened. The city put money into a public-private partnership that wasn't fully completed as promised. The city's major fault appears to have been signing the contract with no guarantees that it would be completed, or that the partnership programming the park would achieve specific benchmarks for events. Unfortunately, that was pretty characteristic of COJ at the time.

[civil42806]

Here is the original thread, some interesting comments.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-nov-a-look-at-brooklyns-proposed-unity-plaza

[vicupstate]

For a fraction of what was spent on this glorified retention pond had been spent in Hemming Plaza, a genuinely successful gathering spot could have been created.

As it always has, Coj thinks creating a 'pretty spot' is all it takes to create an successful urban setting. Remember the park across from the back side of the Library?  There was another pocket park created before that one too.  I guess they thought the third time would be the charm.   

Not really what happened. The city put money into a public-private partnership that wasn't fully completed as promised. The city's major fault appears to have been signing the contract with no guarantees that it would be completed, or that the partnership programming the park would achieve specific benchmarks for events. Unfortunately, that was pretty characteristic of COJ at the time.

Even if it looked better, it would still need the programming to meet the original hype. Even then it would have challenges. The location just doesn't work.

These comments from Saw Palmetto in the original thread, sum it up well:

Inwardly, there are some good features. Outwardly, I would say it's not even close to making the best of an already awkward location. It's like a side yard to a single place rather than something central to several. I think it will only remain that way for the foreseeable future because of the way connections seem like an afterthought rather than smooth-as-butter, as should be expected when the word "plaza" is adopted. Forest serves as a wall, and that's whether there were anything immediately across it to begin with. The design seems to be giving a great deal of attention to the Magnolia and Forest corner, but Magnolia doesn't even at least offer a crossing at Forest of any legal sort. At the same time, the design appears to be directly ignoring its most "duh" pedestrian connection at Riverside & Forest in favor of a park entrance further up Riverside oriented towards its parking spaces. Ever heard of a drive-to "plaza"?

[Tacachale]

Here is the original thread, some interesting comments.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-nov-a-look-at-brooklyns-proposed-unity-plaza

Good Find. A quick skim of the comments and grades are as follows:

Tufsu1:              A
Everyone else : K (for koolaid drinkers)

Not true. There are many things to appreciate about Unity Plaza. For starters, it made one big retention pond that could be used as a water feature, instead of a bunch of small ones connected to every development all across the neighborhood. That was an innovative choice that is still worthy of support.

For a fraction of what was spent on this glorified retention pond had been spent in Hemming Plaza, a genuinely successful gathering spot could have been created.

As it always has, Coj thinks creating a 'pretty spot' is all it takes to create an successful urban setting. Remember the park across from the back side of the Library?  There was another pocket park created before that one too.  I guess they thought the third time would be the charm.   

Not really what happened. The city put money into a public-private partnership that wasn't fully completed as promised. The city's major fault appears to have been signing the contract with no guarantees that it would be completed, or that the partnership programming the park would achieve specific benchmarks for events. Unfortunately, that was pretty characteristic of COJ at the time.

Even if it looked better, it would still need the programming to meet the original hype. Even then it would have challenges. The location just doesn't work.

These comments from Saw Palmetto in the original thread, sum it up well:

Inwardly, there are some good features. Outwardly, I would say it's not even close to making the best of an already awkward location. It's like a side yard to a single place rather than something central to several. I think it will only remain that way for the foreseeable future because of the way connections seem like an afterthought rather than smooth-as-butter, as should be expected when the word "plaza" is adopted. Forest serves as a wall, and that's whether there were anything immediately across it to begin with. The design seems to be giving a great deal of attention to the Magnolia and Forest corner, but Magnolia doesn't even at least offer a crossing at Forest of any legal sort. At the same time, the design appears to be directly ignoring its most "duh" pedestrian connection at Riverside & Forest in favor of a park entrance further up Riverside oriented towards its parking spaces. Ever heard of a drive-to "plaza"?

Saw Palmetto's post is prescient, but my post was referring to the fact that COJ didn't design this space. This was a private development that the city helped fund. Even beyond that, while Unity Plaza is a disappointment, it's not an all out failure.

The bigger problem is really the amount of money the city put into it compared to how it turned out. That issue goes back before that thread to how the whole Riverside 220 development was designed. The lack of programming is a real problem considering that the city gave them $750,000 for it (with no guarantees they would actually do it). Yoga and exercise classes on the lawn are fine, but they're the kind of thing that a lot of apartment complexes do without incentives from the city.

[Tacachale]

Not true. There are many things to appreciate about Unity Plaza. For starters, it made one big retention pond that could be used as a water feature, instead of a bunch of small ones connected to every development all across the neighborhood. That was an innovative choice that is still worthy of support.

We agree to disagree as I see nothing to appreciate. We went once and found it to be a concrete nightmare. I doubt we will ever return with the one exception being an event specific to one of the causes that we financially support. I wouldn't care except for the waste of tax payer dollars . On a positive note, I am glad the funds were thrown away  supporting  shoddily built apartments in the urban core as opposed to another shoddily built development on the Southside. See..?I am being supportive!

Well, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be visiting five or six retention ponds taking up real estate across Brooklyn all that often either.