Jackson Square Controversy Brewing

[jaxphotocat]

That does not sound good.  The people on River Oaks Road (and other San Marco residents) need to work together to preserve what makes San Marco so desirable and that does not includes constant widening of roads.

I think from the railroad tracks to Hendricks most likely should be left alone, but from the tracks going toward Phillips is fair game since it is such an ugly mess at this time and almost anything could improve that little area.

Where is the representation in the city council for the San Marco community?  Art Shad should be meeting with residents and helping resolve these issues.

[southerngirl]

Would someone PLEASE explain how this can be happening?  How can a city allow a developer to call the shots and, simultaneously destroy the integrity of an existing neighborhood in the interest of "progress" that nobody can assure anyone will ever happen.

Has ANYONE considered:
1. There is NO BRT or light rail in Jacksonville. How in the HELL can a developer be allowed to claim the benefits of a TOD when there is no "TO" there??

2. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND is going to PAY MONEY TO LIVE ON PHILIPS HIGHWAY?? The developer can talk about how "purty" his "little ol" development is going to be, but that won't erase the reality of that part of Philips. Ask the police -- it's one of the highest crime areas IN JACKSONVILLE!!!! Prostitution, drugs, murder... Do you want your "young up and coming" daughter or son to move into that?

The developer and his lobby/lawyer, Paul Harden, are trying to make the neighbors sound like the evil ones in this dispute. Our crime is having been the ones to move to the adjacent area and help establish this part of the urban core for the past 40+ years. We are middle class homeowners who simply want to ensure that our homes and neighborhood are being considered in these discussions.

Shame on anyone who tries to blame this fiasco on the neighbors who it appears now stand to lose the safety of their children, their street, their front yards and their way of life. 

If you're looking for who to make accountable for THAT crime: then blame for the lack of oversight from the Planning Dept. lies at Brad Thoburn's feet and the blame for sloppily and casually writing the PUD lies at the feet of Paul Harden.  Let's not leave out Art Shad as we're tossing blame around. He's not doing his job in advocating for his constituents, but there's nothing new in that.  He hasn't for years.  The recall campaign starts now.

[civil42806]

Would someone PLEASE explain how this can be happening?  How can a city allow a developer to call the shots and, simultaneously destroy the integrity of an existing neighborhood in the interest of "progress" that nobody can assure anyone will ever happen.

Has ANYONE considered:
1. There is NO BRT or light rail in Jacksonville. How in the HELL can a developer be allowed to claim the benefits of a TOD when there is no "TO" there??

2. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND is going to PAY MONEY TO LIVE ON PHILIPS HIGHWAY?? The developer can talk about how "purty" his "little ol" development is going to be, but that won't erase the reality of that part of Philips. Ask the police -- it's one of the highest crime areas IN JACKSONVILLE!!!! Prostitution, drugs, murder... Do you want your "young up and coming" daughter or son to move into that?

The developer and his lobby/lawyer, Paul Harden, are trying to make the neighbors sound like the evil ones in this dispute. Our crime is having been the ones to move to the adjacent area and help establish this part of the urban core for the past 40+ years. We are middle class homeowners who simply want to ensure that our homes and neighborhood are being considered in these discussions.

Shame on anyone who tries to blame this fiasco on the neighbors who it appears now stand to lose the safety of their children, their street, their front yards and their way of life. 

If you're looking for who to make accountable for THAT crime: then blame for the lack of oversight from the Planning Dept. lies at Brad Thoburn's feet and the blame for sloppily and casually writing the PUD lies at the feet of Paul Harden.  Let's not leave out Art Shad as we're tossing blame around. He's not doing his job in advocating for his constituents, but there's nothing new in that.  He hasn't for years.  The recall campaign starts now.

Your absouley right there is no rail and I would bet a week salary there never will be.  Just destroy yet another neighborhood, so another place can be built for people to buy useless crap with money they don't have.

[civil42806]

Oh i forgot, alway remember its for the "Greater Good".  Always capitalize the G's

[jaxphotocat]

Well, the people on River Oaks Road better gather now and start to speak up and loud to at least attempt to have some rights on this matter.

[marco]

Metro Jax needs to understand that this development is not a TOD.  JTA has confirmed that there are no plans for a transit station in this area and the developer is not providing any space in the development for a transit station.  The developer is trading on the attractiveness of a TOD with absolutely nothing to substantiate it !

[tufsu1]

not true...at a minimum, there is bus service along US 1 and the Developer will be providing a bus stop w/ shelter.

But the reality is that this development is oriented toward development of either

1. BRT
2. Commuter Rail
3. Skyway extension

Do you think the whole project will be up in running in 2010....no....it will take several years to build everything....and that may be the time JTA needs to get their plans firmed up.

[reednavy]

Metro Jax needs to understand that this development is not a TOD.  JTA has confirmed that there are no plans for a transit station in this area and the developer is not providing any space in the development for a transit station.  The developer is trading on the attractiveness of a TOD with absolutely nothing to substantiate it !

Take everything JTA says with a grain, hell, handful of salt.

[southerngirl]

not true...at a minimum, there is bus service along US 1 and the Developer will be providing a bus stop w/ shelter.

But the reality is that this development is oriented toward development of either

1. BRT
2. Commuter Rail
3. Skyway extension

Do you think the whole project will be up in running in 2010....no....it will take several years to build everything....and that may be the time JTA needs to get their plans firmed up.

All due respect, but if a bus stop = a TOD, then this city is light years ahead of others in transit-oriented development...

Seriously, if the city will JUST STOP the mad rush to let developers throw whatever they want up (via PUDs, not a TOD-specific zoning process that smart cities like Austin have implemented), this could be done right and would be WELCOME in the community.

The neighbors in the area are moving toward a more favorable position about the development, but, sadly, the developers aren't moving any closer to making adjustments that would benefit all. One thing they COULD do, and by law, city code requires them to do, is PUT THE DETAILS ABOUT THEIR DEVELOPMENT IN THE PUD.

It REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.  Today, their PUD is 26 pages --  pages 1-21 are simply pages with signatures of the property owners noting their ownership involved in the development, pages 22-25 (FOUR PAGES) are the "details" of the development, page 26 is a line drawing of the outline of the property.

THIS IS A SLAP in the face to all of us.  The city Planning Dept. is allowing this developer, who has no track record to speak of in the area, and his attorney (who has worked his mojo on Council yet again), to roll right through them on the way to building a massive high-density multi-use facility on a HOPE that transit will come there.

Where are the concurrency facts?  Where will these kids go to school?  Someone's trying to use redistricting as an alternative to the overcrowded schools those kids would go to today.  Like the lack of transit at the site -- there is NO redistricting plan approved to guarantee that this concern will be taken care of. The schools these kids are to go to today are defined as overcrowded by the school system.

Where are they planning their req'd 30% green space, given that they are planning to build on 90% of the property (90+30 = no green space)? The city says they're "allowing" the developer to include FEC Park (across the railroad tracks) as their green space. The city is GIVING THEM A PARK?  What in the WORLD??

What about stormwater runoff?  Again -- 90% of property covered in pavement...where's the water going?

What about parking?  Here's how the developer characterizes his parking plan for a 900-unit apartment complex, a 350,000 retail commercial space: Parking requirements shall be 1/2 of the required parking for CCG-1 [commercial section] and 1/2 of required parking for residential uses. Off-site adjacent parking to the development shall be credited against any parking requirements. There shall be no setbacks for required parking.

1/2 of required parking for this entire development?  Off-site parking?  Where? On what street?  Philips Highway? Nope, River Oaks Road.  That's right -- a barely two-lane residential street is going to become a parking lot -- LITERALLY -- because of the city's INABILITY TO REQUIRE THE DEVELOPER PROPERLY and LEGALLY plan for the impact of his development.

Now, if there were more specificity in the PUD, perhaps we'd know how he REALLY plans to handle the parking concern. But because there are NO details in the PUD application, NOBODY has an ability to see if this development meets code requirements or will have an impact far beyond what they're telling people. The neighbors and taxpayers who just had to EAT $1 million from concurrency screwups (same lawyer here, folks) just want to SEE, in detailed schematics/plans, in written description, etc., what they are going to do with this property.

Look -- as I said, neighbors are coming around and trying to be reasonable (they've met with the developer multiple times, but the developer is not making any adjustments, nor do they seem to be willing to provide any real details on their project), despite the fact that the city is NOT requiring this developer to abide by zoning laws.  ALL WE have been asking for is facts, and we're not getting any - from the city or from the developer. "Trust us" doesn't work when you're talking about a development that is THIS massive and that is relying on a whole lot of as-yet confirmed commitments from the city for things like legitimate transit options (light rail, not  just a bus stop) and traffic.

Any reasonable person would suspect that there's something being hidden in the lack of details, which is why the suspicion won't go away.

The City is ASKING for a lawsuit on this one, and they might just get it, if they don't SLOW THIS DOWN, require of the developer's PUD what the LAW REQUIRES. 

It's really that simple.

[tufsu1]

one of the main purposes of doing a PUD is so you don't have to follow all the local rules...things such as 30% open space or specific setback & parking requirements...in return, the City gets to review more details on the project such as design details.

[JeffreyS]

The River Oaks crowd should retain a lawyer now. I like this project but I hate the idea of back room deals. If the project can't stand the light of day it shouldn't happen.

[southerngirl]

one of the main purposes of doing a PUD is so you don't have to follow all the local rules...things such as 30% open space or specific setback & parking requirements...in return, the City gets to review more details on the project such as design details.

OK, so WHEN does the city get to "review more details on the project such as design details?" 

After construction is underway? What sense does that make? 

That's for people who prefer an "ask for forgiveness" approach to everything, rather than one where we ALL abide by the laws in the first place. The "Ask for forgiveness" approach just cost Jacksonville taxpayers $1 million in another of Harden's deals....are we really stupid enough not to REQUIRE the details ahead of time on this one?

[italianny07]

This is the greatest idea i've seen in jacksonville, and now people are opposing it. I don't understand the people here in jacksonville.

[Ocklawaha]

Metro Jax needs to understand that this development is not a TOD.  JTA has confirmed that there are no plans for a transit station in this area and the developer is not providing any space in the development for a transit station.  The developer is trading on the attractiveness of a TOD with absolutely nothing to substantiate it !

Take everything JTA says with a grain, hell, handful of salt.

In defense of JTA on this one, the plans are not in any phase that nails down certain stops. Jackson Square is not ruled out. Why?

In early planning models, mandated by the FTA, DOT etc. the game is simply roll out some prospective routes. This is usually based on a study and local knowledge of travel patterns, traffic counts etc. Then a number of dots are placed along the route called "stops". But they really are NOT. They are locaitons from which the model pulls in population and consolidates commute number esitmates. They have no regard to reality, cross connections or true station locations. One might say they are very rough guesses just for numbers sake.

Phase 2, once the numbers on the above are complete and show a population base that will support XX services, then a much more detailed study looks at REAL station sites, and starts to calculate connecting transit, park-and-ride, multi-modal connections etc. THIS is the phase where stations will be hammered down and JTA is not there yet.

The game for home owners in any given area now is to step up to the plate at JTA and be heard about where you WANT the stations, park-and-rides etc.

OCKLAWAHA

[BridgeTroll]

Not sure "opposing" is the correct term.  Seems they have legitimate unanswered concerns.  Please read the entire thread and the reasons are very clear.