Very sad: Restaurant owner killed exercising...

[Driven1]

it's a tragedy.  Mr. Jones (JJ) and his wife owned the Genesis Cafe on Old Kings Rd (near Baymeadows intersection).  they had a catering business too.  some of the best food around.  he and his wife would travel around to different parts of the country to taste the cooking and learn how to cook it and bring it back to their little cafe.  great stuff.  just a very pleasant man.  unfortunately, he was killed today crossing Atlantic Blvd.  it is my understanding that he was told by his doc to start exercising more and so had started biking.  from the report, it looks like he tried to cross while he had a red light and didn't see the truck coming.  a tragedy nonetheless.  go here, read the story and then read the comments. 

http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/

there really is a lot of hate in this town against those who are pedestrians, cyclist and scooter/motorcycle riders.  my wife and i talked today, seriously for the first time, about moving to somewhere safer (crime-wise), slower and more pedestrian/bike-friendly.  the report that came out not too long ago about jax being one of the worst bike-friendly cities in the nation was one thing.  the daily honks and aggression we get from rude, impatient, unforgiving motorists is one thing.  but this may be for us the straw that broke the camel's back.  even though it looks like it may have been his accidental fault in this case.  if nothing else, it has concreted in my mind that the city has ZERO priority for bike lanes.   just like the letter-writer to the T-U who recently visited Tenn said...maybe ya'll can have Jacksonville ("ya'll" being the murdering thugs and backwards, angry rednecks).

[Driven1]

"Pete" sums up probably 70% of Jacksonville...

Pete Says:

July 24th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Bike lanes take up very valuable driving lanes. We used to have two lanes each way through San Marco. Now we have one lane each way and an absolutely empty bike lane. The highest and best use of the roads is for vehicles. If the bikes stay out of my way then I’ll stay out of theirs.

The problem is they ride on San Jose, Beauclerc, Scott Mill and Mandarin Road in packs and actually out into the road by many feet. These pack bicyclists are complete jerks.

We don’t need more bike lanes, this is not a third world country or socialist Europe. This is the largest area wise city in the continental US. Cars are king in Jacksonville and always will be. Ride your bike on major roads at your own risk and don’t look for me to give you your three feet. Maybe I’ll give you 6 inches.

http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/

[RiversideGator]

I am very sorry to hear about this accident.

You shouldnt leave town because of this though.  Maybe you should move to a more pedestrian/bike friendly part of town, like Riverside/Avondale for example.

[thebrokenforum]

Arrghh. It's EMBARRASSING to read responses like "Pete's". This is exactly what I was talking about regarding comments in newspaper's blogs. I'm sure that guy's family and friends appreciate the comments like that... WTF is the TU thinking? Are they enjoying collecting comments like that and displaying them on their stories? They only serve to incite other ignorant comments. Seriously, what is the point? Are they holding up some kind of virtual mirror to the readers, in effect saying: this is you! Look!

Listen, I am the first to defend free speech but when you post a story about a stand up guy in the community getting killed in a bad way and it incites ridiculous, angry and ignorant comments you should remove the ability to comment on that story. It's in bad taste and it's low class.

Driven, don't let this incident be that straw. I too have talked with my wife about moving away for the same reasons you do but this city needs positive thinking people to enact change. You guys have managed to maintain a positive and apparently growing website here, and even though we argue sometimes, this site seems to make people pay attention when it wants to. I think it's time to step up the game a little. Stephen got JTA to take notice. There's no reason similar problems cannot be addressed in the same way.

I wouldn't blame you if you left because things are F'ed up right now and with the people in charge it looks to become even bleaker. But like RG said, you shouldn't leave over this. I have to wonder though just how many people have the same exact idea as you. How many of them are having the same discussions with their families.

[Driven1]

hey guys - thanks for the encouraging words.  who knows.  i think we are going to look around, but nothing imminent.  in the meantime, i wonder what we could do to change things in this arena?  at least with commuter rail, we had JTA  - an agency that at least listens SOME to the people it serves.  how much does JTA have to do with bike lanes?  wouldn't it be the (mostly corrupt and self-seeking - the self-seeking part confirmed by opinion of most of the residents in a recent T-U poll) leaders in City Council & the mayor? 

btw...i ride the MS 150 with Team Citi.  here is a small chunk of what our leader sent out today in his daily email (btw, he has never used the word "enemy")...

Enemy.  Who's our enemy?  Most drivers in Jacksonville, by the sound of feedback to a recent Jacksonville.com story regarding a cyclist hit and killed by a truck on Atlantic Blvd. 

-- Pete says, "I drive by aggressive bicyclists everday. They act like they own the road. The ride in packs like gangs and give you the bird if you toot your horn. They are taking their lives into their own hands by riding a little piece of metal and rubber in traffic and I have no sympathy for them."

-- CR says, "I am with Pete. Anyone who rides in today’s traffic has apple sauce for brains. What do these cyclists think they are doing, riding for a yellow jersey or something? Get a better hobbie. The cyclist uniform looks fruity, especially in Mandarin on San Jose Blvd. and Northern St Johns county along Julington Creek Plantation area (Fruit Cove?). They don’t understand the risk vs. 5,000 lb vehicles. Lots of better ways to stay in shape safely. Your life is irreplaceable, and do you really want your wife spending your hard earned dough on some wimpy con artist second husband."

-- Nester says, "Most bike riding adults are just drunks that got one too many DUI'S and can’t keep their s**t together.  However, I do know some that have the 'green' mentality. You know, the excercise nuts."

-- And then there's Horace, "Bicycles need to be outlawed, along with cars that can exceed the speed limit. Put everyone into golf carts."

[second_pancake]

Ok, my blood was boiling so I just posted a scathing post to the article.

Driven, my husband and I are moving to the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex in the next week or so...an area that was recently voted by Bicycling magazine as being one of the "worst cities for cycling" in the entire country, and you know what, it's still better than Jacksonville.

No, they don't have bike lanes and some of the roads are pitted and rough.  Yes, there are a great many cyclists killed each year by cars (most of the drivers having been drunk), but they recognize their downfalls and have worked with many cities throughout the area to build a series of off-road paved trails that in many instances, runs directly next to the road and is not unlike a completely seperate road specificically for bikes complete with stop signs and directional lines.  Their drivers don't purposefully seek out to hurt and offend cyclists.  When my husband and I stopped into a bike shop and asked about the drivers and how bad it was, we were told, "it's not very bike friendly."  We were disappointed and further asked, "do they throw change out the window at you guys or swerve to knock you off the road?" "Do they honk and yell things out their windows at you or cut you off at red lights?"  The shop owner looked completely shocked and said, "God no!"

This just goes to show you that no matter how many bike lanes are installed here and no matter how many accomodations are made to make things "safer" for cyclists, you will never change the overall mentality of the ignorant car-minded typical Jacksonvillians which is seek-out-and-destroy-that-which-is-different-from-me.

[jbm32206]

This just goes to show you that no matter how many bike lanes are installed here and no matter how many accomodations are made to make things "safer" for cyclists, you will never change the overall mentality of the ignorant car-minded typical Jacksonvillians which is seek-out-and-destroy-that-which-is-different-from-me.

I couldn't agree more!

[thebrokenforum]

Most cyclists DARE you to hit them and frequently will obstruct traffic.

I don’t have any sympathy at all for them.

Another comment from the TU story.

Second, I sympathize with you. Your TU comment was indeed scathing but it was on the money.

I wrote to the the TU editor asking what he hopes to accomplish with the unmoderated comments that continue to poison the TU message boards. I haven't heard back yet.

[thebrokenforum]

Frank Denton

[uptowngirl]

Arrghh. It's EMBARRASSING to read responses like "Pete's". This is exactly what I was talking about regarding comments in newspaper's blogs. I'm sure that guy's family and friends appreciate the comments like that...  

I could not agree more. I was reading the postings last night and just could not believe what was being written. Who are these people? What surprised me most was some of the most ignorant commenter’s seemed to all know each other, which tells me they have nothing better to do then search the TU for stories they can make their ignorant hateful comments on.

I ride with my child and usually, in the core, people are very respectful but there are some who will go out of their way to try and hit you EVEN with a child on board. I don't ride in the middle of the lane; I follow the rules of the road, as I believe most of us do. I know of bikers who have been stopped by JSO in the core for riding on the sidewalk and told this is not legal; there are even some signs on Main St stating no bikes. Jacksonville gives us no choice but to take the risk we may, while following all the rules of the road, run into one of these ignorant drivers while biking.

[thebrokenforum]

Try Rich Ray

Done. Thanks.

[vicupstate]

-- Pete says, "I drive by aggressive bicyclists everday. They act like they own the road. The ride in packs like gangs and give you the bird if you toot your horn. They are taking their lives into their own hands by riding a little piece of metal and rubber in traffic and I have no sympathy for them."

-- CR says, "I am with Pete. Anyone who rides in today’s traffic has apple sauce for brains. What do these cyclists think they are doing, riding for a yellow jersey or something? Get a better hobbie. The cyclist uniform looks fruity, especially in Mandarin on San Jose Blvd. and Northern St Johns county along Julington Creek Plantation area (Fruit Cove?). They don’t understand the risk vs. 5,000 lb vehicles. Lots of better ways to stay in shape safely. Your life is irreplaceable, and do you really want your wife spending your hard earned dough on some wimpy con artist second husband."

-- Nester says, "Most bike riding adults are just drunks that got one too many DUI'S and can’t keep their s**t together.  However, I do know some that have the 'green' mentality. You know, the excercise nuts."

-- And then there's Horace, "Bicycles need to be outlawed, along with cars that can exceed the speed limit. Put everyone into golf carts."

Don't you LOVE how people take one piece of knowledge about a person (they ride a bike) that they know NOTHING ELSE about, and make all kinds of assumptions about them ?? 

This is why I chaffe so much at comments on these boards that seek to pigeonhole people based on one belief, or one post.   

Now obviously Driven is a cyclist, so it goes without saying that he is an devoted environmentalist, otherwise he would be driving instead.  Of course, it is possible he can't drive because he had a DUI arrest, and can't afford auto insurance. However, I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that.     

Now since he is an environmentalist, we obviously know a lot of other things about him too.  Environmentalists are always liberal Democrats, and therefore he thinks Bush is satan, Obama is the messiah, and that we should all be carbon-taxed. His concept of a 'family' no doubt includes 'Adam and Steve' living next door to his 'green' bungalow located in Riverside or some such place.

Now Driven must have SOME kind of car, after all, this is Jacksonville.  But, no doubt it is a Prius, or if not, his next car will be. 

Now as for his destination on the bike, if he isn't headed to the Sierra Club meeting, he must be going to buy overpriced organic 'essentials' at the 'fruitty' health store.  And obviously it really is no stretch to say that he drinks "lattes" like water.

Since Driven is using a public road to ride his bicycle, which everyone knows is for AUTOS, and since AUTOS use gas, the AUTO drivers paid for this road with the gas taxes they paid at the pump.  Driven is actually feeding off the government by using the road without purchasing gas.   But then being a liberal Democrat, that wouldn't bother him.

Such are the thoughts of the narrow-minded.  I try not to be like them, but probably only because I have been so 'defined' myself.
   
So Driven, how close to the truth do the narrow-minded get?

   

[thelakelander]

The governing entity on this issue is the Department of Transportation.  They decide to build the bike lanes and whether or not they should be installed.

The City of Jacksonville can take a proactive role in this arena on streets that the FDOT does not maintain.  There's no reason we can't remove a lane from some of our local roads to create avenues through town that cater to alternative forms (anything other than cars) of transit.  Many cities are already doing this.


An example of making a local street one-way and using a portion of the old lane for cycling.

If I remember, Driven, there is a requirement that new road construction accomodate bike lanes.

The issue came up during the Better Jacksonville Plan during the improvements on 8th Street.

The state was requiring us to have bike lanes installed, and Van Horn was against it in favor of parking.  There was mixed opinion on this at the time, I dont remember how it was resolved.

8th Street has bike lanes now and no parking, which I believe was a mistake.  If it were up to me, it would have both, at the expense of the un-needed center turn lane and grass medians.

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville needs one of these...

June 25, 2008
Hoboken Bicycle Plan proposal
by Juan

­­­About 20 community members came out to the Multi-Service Center tonight for the Parking & Transportation subcommittee bicycle plan meeting. Traffic engineer Ian Sacs gave a presentation for a comprehensive bicycle plan for the city that would include bike lanes, bike parking, traffic enforcement, safety and public awareness components.

Below is a draft version of the proposed layout of bike lanes and bike racks. ­Only Class II and III bicycle lanes are proposed, meaning only some paint will be needed to make the adjustments. Class II lanes where a strip of paint is used to delineate a lane for bikes on the left hand side of the road are proposed on wider streets including Madison St, Grand St, Sinatra Dr and northern portions of Park Ave and Garden St. The left hand side is preferred because it is safer for bicyclists since parked driver side car doors are 3 times more likely to open than passenger side doors. For more narrow roads, class III lanes would be used where “sharrows” (see image on right) would remind drivers that the road is to be shared with bicycle riders.


Although bicyclists have the same right to the road as cars, the plan creates a grid of designated bike routes designed to raise awareness of drivers, thus creating a safer environment for both bike riders and drivers. Park Ave and Madison St are designated routes running north from Observer Highway to 15th St while Grand St and Garden St run parallel in the south-bound direction. East-west bike corridors conecting to the light rail stops are proposed at 3rd & 4th and 8th & 9th along with another pair at 12th & 13th.


Since part of the purpose is to encourage more people to bike within Hoboken, more heavily trafficked roads like Washington St or Observer Hwy were not included in the proposal. Bike racks are also proposed all along Washington St, 1st Ave, at the PATH and Light Rail stops at 2nd and 9th streets. A draft of the proposal is below:

Hoboken Bike Plan

[uptowngirl]

Lake- 8th street has bike lanes that just end in the middle of a block. They are not really usuable. Why does the city not put bike lanes in realistic areas? The bike lane on riverside is a little strange. Almost everyone I know bikes on the Riverwalk, not Riverside. Plus this bike lane just kind of ends too. Perhaps this is part of the perception some posters had about empty bike lanes....