Jacksonville Armada in trouble?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

From Twitter:

[remc86007]

None of this sounds like it will end well. Two second tier leagues?? That doesn't sound viable in the long term. I hope somehow Jacksonville ends up keeping the team one way or another.

[TimmyB]

The USL now has 30 teams and have attained 2nd-division status.  The NASL has 6 teams, 7 if Jax is solvent, and also 2nd division status.  Things don't look so hot for the Armada, even if the league DOES buy the team.

[Gamblor]

The Federation will decide on 1 second tier league at the end of 2017 and it is highly unlikely to be NASL. They need to add at least 5 teams, which still wouldn't guarantee them being chosen. In terms of moving forward, we are going to need a new ownership group to start a team in USL.

[TimmyB]

The Federation will decide on 1 second tier league at the end of 2017 and it is highly unlikely to be NASL. They need to add at least 5 teams, which still wouldn't guarantee them being chosen. In terms of moving forward, we are going to need a new ownership group to start a team in USL.

Sadly, just by reading on this forum the way things are run in Jacksonville, there will be a guy who announces just that and then, we wait.

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[remc86007]

Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?

[Tacachale]

According to the Times-Union, the NASL is taking over the Armada pending a sale to new owners. There are apparently a number of groups interested in buying the team/starting a new one, as Jax is considered a solid D2 soccer market, so the sale will probably go through before too long (or else another team will come in to replace them). Unlike some other teams, the Armada apparently couldn't bolt to the USL because they've still got a year left on their 3-year guaranteed play contract. It was either NASL or fold. The league takeover makes sense for the NASL, as the league would probably have folded without them, and/or a new USL franchise would come in right behind them to snap up this market.

In the article Frisch mentioned that the Baseball Grounds was part of the team's problem, though he blamed it on the sight lines and atmosphere. I don't buy that; they were drawing crowds 5-9k crowds there their first year. I imagine the real problem was the $70k a game cost of converting the stadium for soccer that did them in. They ended up cutting a bunch of staff (including the ones who really knew how to sell tickets) and that's usually death knell for minor league sports in these parts.

Bottom line, we'll probably be seeing D2 soccer here for some time. I can't imagine they'll play at the Baseball Grounds anymore, but there are problems with any available options here in town. I've said it before, but future owners need to give serious thought to building a new soccer-specific stadium in some easily accessible part of town.

[Gamblor]

Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?

USL doesnt have a reason too. In the last few years they have boomed to 30 teams, and coped well with the loss of major franchises like Portland, Seattle, and Orlando to the MLS. Also they are plucking the teams they want from NASL, and I'll wager come January 2018 they'll be the only D2 league in the USA. Whether NASL is dead or alive (and restructuring for a D3 future) is the question.

Bottom line, we'll probably be seeing D2 soccer here for some time. I can't imagine they'll play at the Baseball Grounds anymore, but there are problems with any available options here in town. I've said it before, but future owners need to give serious thought to building a new soccer-specific stadium in some easily accessible part of town.

I agree things look D2 for the future. This round of MLS expansion seems pretty locked up with I believe Sacramento (last rounds runner up whose bid has only gotten stronger) getting their card stamped and either Cinci, St. Louis or Charlotte getting the other team (stadium/political backing/marketing issues). But I'm with you, getting a suitable venue will fix a lot of issues. The baseball grounds conversion cost had to be an issue, and definitely a much larger one than the expected quirks of watching a soccer game at a baseball stadium. At times watching games at the baseball grounds was nice, it has a distinct feel, but its not the same as the team having its own home to grow in. Since we're some what on the subject, can we beg Shad for one? Maybe something kind of Craven Cottage esque, but Jacksonville appropriate on the St. Johns? Sorry to go there and I kind of mean this as a joke, but... isn't there an rfp going? 

[Adam White]

Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?

Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.

[pierre]

The NASL is toast, and it looks like the Armada are going down with them.

[remc86007]

Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?

Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.

Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?

Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?

[Adam White]

Does anyone know why the NASL isn't just subsumed into the USL? It seems like it would be better for everyone involved?

Money! They offer competing products - in a manner of speaking. They (well, the NASL and the USL's predecessor) were actually in direct competition to be the second division a few years ago, I think.

Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?

Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?

I think the last time they had a dispute, they were forced to work together for a while. But I am not sure - I'm only so familair with minor league soccer! What's crazy is that the USL has so many teams and the NASL has so few. At least MLS seems to be doing okay.

[Gamblor]

Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?

Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?

The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.

[Tacachale]

Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?

Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?

The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.

Both leagues only have provisional D2 sanctioning, meaning they don't meet all qualifications. More NASL teams individually fit the bill, but the league is unstable. The USL is mores stable, but a number of their teams are bush league, or are just MLS reserves. While it's unlikely there will be 2 D2 leagues after the year, it seems likelier that there will be a restructuring of some kind.

[Gamblor]

Right, but I assumed the U.S. Soccer Federation had a significant amount of say in how the division's were arranged. Couldn't they have conditioned the USL move to division 2 on accepting the teams from the NASL?

Reading some of the wiki page on lower division soccer in the US, it feels like we are just watching another dispute in a highly dysfunctional organization. The way things are going, it looks like a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money, again. Would the MLB or NBA put up with this feud among their minor leagues?

The USL has won the battle here, they were D3 and their promotion to D2 is another death bell for NASL. The Federation would never force them to take over the losing competitor in the NASL and those teams debts. However the USL has been very open to accepting NASL teams, and that's all you can really ask for.

Both leagues only have provisional D2 sanctioning, meaning they don't meet all qualifications. More NASL teams individually fit the bill, but the league is unstable. The USL is mores stable, but a number of their teams are bush league, or are just MLS reserves. While it's unlikely there will be 2 D2 leagues after the year, it seems likelier that there will be a restructuring of some kind.

Yah but USL was D3 last season and NASL's D2 status wasn't provisional. The arrows are clearly pointing in opposite directions for the leagues, and if restructuring happens it will be NASL as D3.  Also, saying USL is bush league and NASL isn't, is laughable at this point.