Jacksonville Armada in trouble?

[pierre]

US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.

I really do not ever see that happening.

I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL

Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.

It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.

[Adam White]

This really disappoints me.  One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular.  I even bought a shirt, already!  Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league. 

As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium.  I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges.  Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?

Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" 

[TimmyB]

US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.

I really do not ever see that happening.

I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL

Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.

It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.

Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type?  It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.

[JBTripper]

Maybe Ron Sholes can buy the team and expand his money-laundering-through-minor-league-sports operation. I'm not saying the Jacksonville Giants are a money-laundering scheme, only that it's the only plausible explanation I can come up with to explain their continued existence.

[fsquid]

US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.

I really do not ever see that happening.

I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL

Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.

It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.

Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type?  It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.

their B team plays in Melbourne.

[TimmyB]

US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.

I really do not ever see that happening.

I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL

Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.

It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.

Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type?  It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.

their B team plays in Melbourne.

OK.  Thanks.

[Tacachale]

The Times Union picked up the story. Looks like Clayton Freeman's a Metro Jacksonville reader

Posted December 7, 2016 10:09 pm
By Clayton Freeman clayton.freeman@jacksonville.com
NASL's struggles could mean changes for Armada in 2017

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<p>Armada defender Bryan Burke (7) moves the ball in a 2016 preseason game. The North American Soccer League has lost at least three teams, raising uncertainty about the Armada&rsquo;s long-term direction. (The Florida Times-Union, Gary Lloyd McCullough)  </p>
Armada defender Bryan Burke (7) moves the ball in a 2016 preseason game. The North American Soccer League has lost at least three teams, raising uncertainty about the Armada's long-term direction. (The Florida Times-Union, Gary Lloyd McCullough)
The future is becoming increasingly unclear for the Jacksonville Armada.

With three teams officially exiting the North American Soccer League, and more perhaps to follow, the next two weeks appear crucial for the league's future - and could determine what Armada soccer will look like in 2017.

"It is my intention to keep the sport of professional soccer alive in Jacksonville and I am working with my leadership team at the Armada to develop a strategy that does just that," Armada owner Mark Frisch said in a statement late Wednesday. "Jacksonville's soccer fans have proven that it is a viable market – and we are working hard to make sure our vision for the future comes to fruition."

...

Should the NASL collapse - and perhaps even if it doesn't - the Armada's future could involve following Tampa Bay and Ottawa to the USL, the third-level league in 2016.

...

Whatever the league, though, the Armada has its own challenges in 2017.

Average attendances have plummeted from an average of 7,927 in Jacksonville's inaugural season to 3,499 in 2016 - a decline of about 55 percent. At the lowest point, the Armada drew just 1,254 on Oct. 12 against the Indy Eleven.

Sharp cutbacks took effect in August and September, when the Armada scaled back its game-day expenditures at the Baseball Grounds, stopped sending public relations employees for road games and slashed its budget for support staff.

Those cuts intensified on Dec. 1, when six established employees in departments ranging from communications to marketing to corporate partnerships were dropped from the club's website.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/2016-12-07/nasl-s-struggles-could-mean-changes-armada-2017

[Gamblor]

US soccer and MLS need to get on board with relegation and clearer division standards.

I really do not ever see that happening.

I believe we will see something similar to the MLB/MiLB set up with top level clubs and farm clubs at various levels. We are already seeing this with the MLS and USL

Minor leagues really struggle to survive unless subsidized by a larger league.

It's a shame the Armada have not done well here. But I never got the sense that Frisch was the right owner.

Does the Orlando MLS franchise have a "farm team" of any type?  It seems like that would be such a natural fit, if they went that direction.

their B team plays in Melbourne.

Not anymore, they are moving them to their MLS stadium for at least next season. They may move them out after a season or two, though it probably still be in the central florida area (probably the practice facility/small grounds they are building where the Pride will move after next season as well)

[Gamblor]

I vaguely knew Frisch growing up and he's a good dude, but I think he was out of his element from the get-go.  I saw a lot of classic minor league mistakes, like over-staffing the front office-- they had a dang general counsel on staff for goodness sake, which was completely unnecessary.

Well said

[Tacachale]

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/sources-jacksonville-armada-leave-nasl-target-usl-move-56140/

According to this site, the Armada are leaving the NASL to make a bid in the USL. That means they're joining the Tampa Bay and Ottawa teams. The budget reductions may be an attempt to get ready for that move. Unfortunately, Frisch may be looking to get out. However, regardless of what happens, there are hopeful signs for the future of the Armada/soccer in Jax, as there is interest from other owners in having soccer here.

The article mentions that the high cost ($70k a game or more) of the Baseball Grounds is an issue for the Armada and would be even more so in the USL. UNF and JU may "serve to solve the team's short term stadium needs" if they leave the Baseball Grounds. However neither are going to be great for drawing crowds. Methinks the stadium issue will continue to hamstring the team or any other that wants to play here.

[TimmyB]

This really disappoints me.  One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular.  I even bought a shirt, already!  Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league. 

As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium.  I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges.  Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?

Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" 

Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam?  Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now!  Too funny.  I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play!  Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.

I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though.  First, the Suns name debacle, now this.  Not the way I want to enter my new home.

[Adam White]

This really disappoints me.  One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular.  I even bought a shirt, already!  Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league. 

As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium.  I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges.  Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?

Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" 

Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam?  Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now!  Too funny.  I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play!  Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.

I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though.  First, the Suns name debacle, now this.  Not the way I want to enter my new home.

I missed the match on Sunday and couldn't bring myself to watch Match of the Day for the highlights.

The Armada news is disappointing - but Orlando isn't that far away.

[TimmyB]

This really disappoints me.  One thing I was planning on for sure was getting behind them and being a regular.  I even bought a shirt, already!  Hopefully, they can tough it out and keep their franchise going in another league. 

As for playing in a HS stadium, I guess it depends on which stadium.  I know a lot of high schools that have a stadium that would be the envy of many small colleges.  Are there any like that in the area which would not be considered a huge step down?

Looks like you're going to be relegated to getting up at 7AM to travel to a stripmall and watch Arsenal matches with the knobheads from the "Jacksonville Gooners" 

Good Lord, how did I not see this response from you, Adam?  Somehow, I completely missed it, until just now!  Too funny.  I'll get up at seven, alright, but I wouldn't walk as far as my couch to see arsenal play!  Once Mkhitaryan heals that ankle, my boys will be just fine.

I'm still disappointed if the Armada fold up shop, though.  First, the Suns name debacle, now this.  Not the way I want to enter my new home.

I missed the match on Sunday and couldn't bring myself to watch Match of the Day for the highlights.

The Armada news is disappointing - but Orlando isn't that far away.

Yeah, but neither is Atlanta.  I don't want to have to travel for my entertainment.  I want to live in a city that's big enough to have those things.  You know: sports, concerts, theater, etc.  I (we) thought Jax was big enough for all of that, and getting bigger, but these past couple of months have made me wonder.

[Tacachale]

At this stage it sounds like they may just be downsizing in preparation of the move into the USL, as the NASL's disintegrating. It's a proven that minor league soccer can work here, and I hope Frisch can make it work with the Armada. But if not, there's other interest and someone else will step in before long.

I would say that he or any future owner needs to understand how much of an issue the stadium is going to be. $70k a game at the Baseball Grounds is going to be hard to recover, and there really aren't any other places to play without serious disadvantages. They need to come prepared to build their own facility in a decent location.

[KenFSU]

It's a proven that minor league soccer can work here, and I hope Frisch can make it work with the Armada. But if not, there's other interest and someone else will step in before long.

I would say that he or any future owner needs to understand how much of an issue the stadium is going to be.

^Totally agree with this point. For a city our size, we have a plethora of top-notch, specific-use facilities. Everbank for the Jaguars. The Baseball Grounds for the team formerly known as the Suns. The symphony hall for the JSO. The Sharks and Giants have Veteran's Memorial. You just can't stick a professional soccer franchise in a borrowed baseball stadium (at $70k a game) or at a high school or college campus and expect people to care. There are too many competing options, and the city has been burned too many times by fly-by-night franchises. You need a sense of quality and permanence that can't be provided using our existing facilities.

I honestly believe that for soccer to be truly successful here, we need a soccer-specific stadium. Not just a soccer field with bleachers surrounding a pitch, but a modern, 4,000 to 6,000 seat stadium that can be scaled when, and only when, demand dictates (it's impossible to overstate how many of the Jaguars blackout and attendance "problems" could have been solved by building a market-appropriate stadium).

Here's San Antonio's Toyota Field for an example of a scaleable soccer-specific stadium:

They need to come prepared to build their own facility in a decent location.

^To do it right, in a decent location, is going to be very expensive. With city subsidies/bed taxes already stretched thin by Daily's Place and Everbank improvements, it may prove difficult to find someone willing to bankroll a USL team here. That's where I think it might be at least worth taking a look at what Orlando did for their soccer-specific stadium. Though the stadium was privately financed by team ownership, Orlando donated a $4 million parcel of downtown land for construction of the stadium.

I'm normally not a huge fan of using waterfront property for sports facilities, but in my opinion, this parcel would make a lot of sense for a soccer-specific stadium:



It's in the immediate vicinity of the existing sports complex, adjacent to Everbank's largest parking lot. It's directly connected to the JTA's proposed Skyway corridor on Bay Street. It's right between the Metro Park development that Shad Khan is pitching and the park/development under consideration for the Shipyards. You'd probably save money on remediation by developing for stadium use.

And, best of all, you could build horseshoe-style, overlooking the St. Johns toward the District, similar to San Jose's MLS Avaya Stadium, giving every single seat a stunning river view that no other Jacksonville sporting facility provides. You could even front the stadium with the riverwalk, providing an interesting, if obstructed, view in for pedestrians, boaters, those across the river at the District, etc.





And, if we're thinking long term, this is the type of location and stadium that the MLS absolutely eats up. Urban. Unique. Soon-to-be adjacent to "mass" transit, dining, hotel, entertainment. And that's gotta be our end-game with any thinking we do about a soccer stadium. We can hope, but we can't put all of our eggs into the Jags staying in the city forever.

If we can find a franchisee willing to build in exchange for that parcel of land, who says no?