Expanding the Skyway: Where would you like it to go?

[Ocklawaha]

JTA and JAX was warned that the original system was not much more than a poky airport shuttle running between buildings even though they were promising 30/60k daily riders and calling it a elevated metro. The monorail concept has always been pie-in-the-sky and NEVER really been successful with U.S. Style loadings except as an amusement. However the man on the street, including past JTA directors bought the sales pitch, hook, line and sinker. Yet we still have those 'train of the future' believers!

[ricker]

Recalling Mayor Delaney speaking of the need to work more toward our core becoming a 24 hour Downtown - in the absence of a single large feeder of "choice riders" - perhaps connecting three major medical campuses (& their parking facilities) could provide needed influx.

1) Could streetcar north from RosaParks/FSCJ DT run along Hogan creek & in any way bring $ to restore those park(s)?

2) With Brooklyn at grade a St. Vincent's connection could only help Riverside. CenterState bank won't likely need their whole block of King St between Lydia/Forbes in all perpetuity and the parking lot on Riverside between Publix and St.Johns Quarter can be better utilized.

3) a local song once rang out, Take it to the Mathews bridge... 
With talk of Met park being developed & old ship yards being the park component replacement, regardless of what happens to the old annex & prime osborne, with Vestcor now in LaVilla, the Ballard conversion possibilities, Phoenix arts, etc., the Eastside and A. Phillip Randolph streetscaping effort and expense invested in that corridor may warrant giving the area a fighting chance via restoration of connectivity


Question
Coming north from KingsAve parking garage & a possible SanMarco extension, it looks like the skyway vehicles have to reverse into Brooklyn, is this so?

[Ocklawaha]

every car they run is at capacity now.

Things have changed in the years since you left jax.

There are a lot more people living  downtown and in the immediate area for one.

The cars were approaching capacity during peak hours before I left.
Years? I've only been in Central Florida since a year ago August!
Good that downtown is growing, its long overdue.

[Ocklawaha]

Recalling Mayor Delaney speaking of the need to work more toward our core becoming a 24 hour Downtown - in the absence of a single large feeder of "choice riders" - perhaps connecting three major medical campuses (& their parking facilities) could provide needed influx.

Actually 4 are within fairly easy reach: UF, Baptist (which desperately needs a pedestrian skybridge to tie it to the system, St. Vincent's Riverside is within easy striking distance of a hybrid Sky-Streetcar with some surface running, Memorial/Brooks is also in that last category.

1) Could streetcar north from RosaParks/FSCJ DT run along Hogan creek & in any way bring $ to restore those park(s)?

Absolutely, but care should be exercised so the streetcar price-tag doesn't get stacked with too many extras.

2) With Brooklyn at grade a St. Vincent's connection could only help Riverside. CenterState bank won't likely need their whole block of King St between Lydia/Forbes in all perpetuity and the parking lot on Riverside between Publix and St.Johns Quarter can be better utilized.

The original line used Oak, splitting the walk between Riverside and Park.

3) a local song once rang out, Take it to the Mathews bridge... 

Doable with streetcar, Skyway or hybrid, but coming off somewhere near the Kings Avenue Station might make more sense allowing pickup of Saint Nicholas, Memorial Hospital and ...??

With talk of Met park being developed & old ship yards being the park component replacement, regardless of what happens to the old annex & prime osborne, with Vestcor now in LaVilla, the Ballard conversion possibilities, Phoenix arts, etc., the Eastside and A. Phillip Randolph streetscaping effort and expense invested in that corridor may warrant giving the area a fighting chance via restoration of connectivity

It's so much larger than 'Everbank Field,' historically this was the Florida Avenue Streetcar line. The TOD effect of a streetcar coupled with all of the entertainment venues would make for explosive growth.

Question
Coming north from KingsAve parking garage & a possible SanMarco extension, it looks like the skyway vehicles have to reverse into Brooklyn, is this so?

Like streetcars they are Bi-Directional so it's not a problem, neither system would need turning loops (aka: Balloon or Circus Tracks)

[thelakelander]

every car they run is at capacity now.

Things have changed in the years since you left jax.

There are a lot more people living  downtown and in the immediate area for one.

The cars were approaching capacity during peak hours before I left.
Years? I've only been in Central Florida since a year ago August!
Good that downtown is growing, its long overdue.

The skyway averages around 5,000 riders a day. Ridership has grown but its nowhere near capacity.

[Ocklawaha]

Even if they ran that way 24/7 there are huge problems with the monorail or people mover concept.

Small capacity vehicles
Extremely high construction costs
High maintenance costs
High operating costs
Inability to walk through the train which limits train length at stations

Heritage Streetcars such as the PCC have a capacity 3-4 times that of the Skyway cars. A modern multi-unit streetcar on that infrastructure could have 12 times the capacity or more.

The elevated infrastructure gives us a opportunity at a true Rapid-Streetcar Metro System.

JTA's current mindset that streetcar 'MUST' have either catenary or a buried 'third rail' in the center of the track (mentioned all through their reports) might be just one more goofy way to snatch defeat out of certain victory, this could morph into the same old 'it can't be done!' Or 'it's too expensive.'

[edjax]

Just saw  on the news they are changing the color scheme of the cars.  Maybe if those in the past that hated th system don't recognize the cars they'll be for it now???

[acme54321]

Even if they ran that way 24/7 there are huge problems with the monorail or people mover concept.

Small capacity vehicles
Extremely high construction costs
High maintenance costs
High operating costs
Inability to walk through the train which limits train length at stations

Heritage Streetcars such as the PCC have a capacity 3-4 times that of the Skyway cars. A modern multi-unit streetcar on that infrastructure could have 12 times the capacity or more.

The elevated infrastructure gives us a opportunity at a true Rapid-Streetcar Metro System.

JTA's current mindset that streetcar 'MUST' have either catenary or a buried 'third rail' in the center of the track (mentioned all through their reports) might be just one more goofy way to snatch defeat out of certain victory, this could morph into the same old 'it can't be done!' Or 'it's too expensive.'

What options are there for power other than the catenary or third rail?  Hybrid diesel?

[Sonic101]

What options are there for power other than the catenary or third rail?  Hybrid diesel?

The M-1 rail line here in Detroit will use a combination of li-ion batteries and catenaries.

Instead of a Woodward Avenue wrapped with electric lines, 60% of the route will be "off wire," meaning most of it will run on battery power versus electricity. The rest will use an overhead catenary system, a standard feature of electric streetcars, allowing the cars to recharge as they drive the 3.3-mile route along Woodward, from downtown to New Center.

http://m-1rail.com/charge-up-the-batteries-for-m-1-rail/

[acme54321]

That's a good idea.  I've always thought that you'd get a ton of pushback trying to run a streetcar through Avondale (or any of the residential areas) with overhead wires.  The aesthetics of overhead wires aren't the best.

[KenFSU]

JTA just had a community meeting to discuss expansion possibilities they are considering.

Per the JBJ, Five Points, the Sports Complex, The District, the M.D. Anderson health center, and Springfield were noted as possibilities, among others, with the most popular public support being for the sports complex and Five Points

Not the best pic, but you can get a sense for some stations they suggested:



Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/11/16/where-should-an-expanded-skyway-go-public-weighs.html

[ProjectMaximus]

MD Anderson? Interesting! Never considered that. It would have to get across the interstate I imagine that would be the terminus whether or not the system was modified to run at grade. And that would be potentially four new branches with the Sports Complex, the District and Brooklyn also spidering out in new directions. You would really have to pay attention to your destination which may go over the head of Jax riders. I've seen plenty of confusion with the branches we currently have lol.

Anyway, it is fun to think about and selfishly I'd LOVE the MD Anderson station, but at the end of the day I know we'll be very lucky just to see a Brooklyn extension in the next 5 years so I'd like our focus/energies on that.

[thelakelander]

Another option for extending at grade.....a driverless bus...





How would you all feel about something like this running on the existing infrastructure and being extended into surrounding neighborhoods at-grade (assuming they ran in their own dedicated lanes)?

[Adam White]

I don't see the point. Why not just run regular buses in dedicated lanes? Surely they can hold more passengers.

[remc86007]

Does anybody know where in Springfield they are considering? Up main street, or through the parks to UF health? I think up main street (with a stop somewhere around 6th) and then over 8th to UF would be the best for encouraging commercial redevelopment on main street.

Maybe one day I could walk from my house in Springfield to a skyway station and ride it to Intuition. That would be amazing.