T-U building for sale

[Kerry]

Yes and yes.  What good is having a river if you have to own a boat to get to it?  Imagine if Riverside Ave looked like Bayshore in Tampa.

I also think downtown needs more attractions and this would make a great place for it.  The best parcels of land should be reserved for civic life.

[menace1069]

...then have the Union Army Civil War camp that was once here recreated so the urban core could have another cultural/tourist attraction.

Dumb.

[Kerry]

Why?

It would be even better if the Southern History Museum and Library would relocate to it.  One stop Civil War history.

[acme54321]

You should totally buy the land, set up the museum and donate it to the city.

[Kerry]

The City and State already has funds available for this type of stuff.  No reason for me to be involved.

[UNFurbanist]

Yeah, although I'm all for history I have to say that is one of the weirder ideas I've heard. That site needs to be made into a vibrant mixed use development. A civil war camp right in the middle of DTJax (filled with cars, giant bridges and skyscrapers) would not only be strange and out of place but I think it would also be quite useless.

[camarocane]

Yes and yes.  What good is having a river if you have to own a boat to get to it?  Imagine if Riverside Ave looked like Bayshore in Tampa.

I also think downtown needs more attractions and this would make a great place for it.  The best parcels of land should be reserved for civic life.

So you're saying the city and/or state should own all 100+ miles of shoreline in the county? 

BTW did you find another place to build your Ark when the Shipyards deal didn't work out?

[Steve]

Private ownership of waterfront land should have never been allowed in the first place.  There are lots of urban planning mistakes that need to be undone.

I agree with the second sentence, but I can't agree with the first one. In fact, one of the largest issues with the Landing in the 2003 redevelopment was that the city owned the dirt, and Sleiman owned the building - this is the worst of both worlds. Sleiman couldn't redevelop it, and the city got no tax revenue for the land. There were people that didn't want the land sold, but I can't understand it - if you want to keep the shape, just sell him the dirt under the building, and keep the courtyard as city owned property. Now, I don't know if Sleiman in 2016 is the right guy for the Landing, but that's besides the point. Find me a city on the water where 100% of even the downtown waterfront was private?

While I don't want to create an entirely private riverfront, there has to be a balance. You are correct that you should be able to enjoy the river without a boat and we do need better riverfront parks, this isn't the site IMO. I do like the idea of incorporating McCoy's Creek, and a portion of the development could be public use - that would be cool.

The long ramp up for the riverwalk in front of the site could be an issue in it's present format. I've never been in favor of the ridiculous riverwalk structure over the railroad - what would have been wrong with a regular crossing with arms? I realize there is the issue of someone walking on the bridge, but I'm not sure the structure prevents that - if someone wants to walk across the bridge it's definitely doable.

[Kerry]

Is still don't see what is wrong with a recreated Civil War fort near downtown.  San Antonio has The Alamo, Charleston has numerous ones, and Sacramento has Sutter's Fort.  I could make a list a mile long.

[cline]

Good move for the TU and downtown in general. A printing plant doesn't need to be on the river. They haven't had rail shipments in years, so they don't need to be on the FEC either.

I never realized they got any deliveries by rail but then I looked at an aerial and saw a little disused spur off of the mainline. Cool.

[acme54321]

Is still don't see what is wrong with a recreated Civil War fort near downtown.  San Antonio has The Alamo, Charleston has numerous ones, and Sacramento has Sutter's Fort.  I could make a list a mile long.

Wait...  are you just trolling?  That's got to be it.

[UNFurbanist]

Well I think the "recreated" part sums it up. The Alamo and all those other sites are in-fact historic and the rest of the city grew around it. Recreating a camp (I'm confused now, is it a fort or a camp? very different things) is just a cheap imitation Disney world-like attempt at something historic. Besides, the money obviously doesn't exist for a project like this because there is currently a real life Spanish American War fort on the SJR near Ft. Caroline which as only raised something like 100k out of 300k to save it from being demolished. Overall I'm sorry but I could never be convinced of this idea. We need more residential and mixed use development to create a vibrant DT!

[thelakelander]

Good move for the TU and downtown in general. A printing plant doesn't need to be on the river. They haven't had rail shipments in years, so they don't need to be on the FEC either.

I never realized they got any deliveries by rail but then I looked at an aerial and saw a little disused spur off of the mainline. Cool.

Yeah, it's been a while but at one time, you could see the box cars under the Acosta while riding the skyway. I believe the Tampa Bay Times plant in St. Petersburg is only major newspaper still getting deliveries by rail now.

[blfair]

Bfair, here was our last conversation on it.

   http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9971.0

I forgot all about that thread, and I started it! I still haven't really heard of it ever being used. I get the feeling it was an idea that never took off... pardon the pun.

[spuwho]

Good move for the TU and downtown in general. A printing plant doesn't need to be on the river. They haven't had rail shipments in years, so they don't need to be on the FEC either.

I never realized they got any deliveries by rail but then I looked at an aerial and saw a little disused spur off of the mainline. Cool.

Yeah, it's been a while but at one time, you could see the box cars under the Acosta while riding the skyway. I believe the Tampa Bay Times plant in St. Petersburg is only major newspaper still getting deliveries by rail now.

Freedom House, the printing facility for the Chicago Tribune just north of Ohio Street, still has a Union Pacific local that brings in newsprint and soy based ink. Same local serves the Blommer Chocolate Company periodically.