Curry warns of 30-percent property tax increase if sales tax idea not supported

[thelakelander]

After The Chat's co-hosts riffed on topics like the latest episodes of Dancing with the Stars and The Voice, the daytime talk show welcomed Mayor Lenny Curry to the soundstage at First Coast News to chat about pension debt and taxes.
The following day, Curry took a seat inside WJCT's radio booth and fielded questions from callers during the quarterly broadcast of Policy Matters hosted by Rick Mullaney, director of Jacksonville University's Public Policy Institute.

As different as the forums were, Curry drummed home the same message: Jacksonville is on the brink of going over the "financial cliff." But if voters pass a half-cent sales tax on Aug. 30, the city can take a giant step toward solving its pension problems once and for all. Opposing the sales tax, Curry warned, will mean ugly alternatives, such as a whopping 30 percent increase in the property tax rate.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-05-31/story/curry-warns-30-percent-property-tax-increase-if-voters-dont-support

[thelakelander]

While reading the FTU comments, I noticed someone added a link to an opposition website:

http://www.just-vote-no.com/

What's everyone's thoughts about the proposed sales tax or having a 30 percent property tax rate increase?

[Noone]

Will this mean a repeal of ALL special tax exempt districts and property given the legislative path that got this on the ballot?

[Tacachale]

A half-penny sales tax - the same we're paying now - will be a lot less painful than hiking property taxes by 30%. As I've said elsewhere, there's also no way to commit a sales tax hike to the pension crisis; future mayors could reappropriate it elsewhere.

I don't know who's behind that website, but if they're really suggesting we can fix this issue without new revenue, it's unreasonable.

[tufsu1]

I have serious concerns in using a local option sales tax, meant for capital projects, to pay down the pension and negating its original use through the year 2060.  I would be fine with a property tax increase.

and as noted above, we aren't solving this problem without identifying NEW revenue.  The Mayor's plan hitches the pension to an existing tax, allowing him to hold the false claim of "no new taxes".

btw Tacachale....it appears John Winkler is the man behind the website

[Kerry]

I took a drive down SR 210 yesterday - want to see why we have a budget problem....there it is.  Developments (over the last 50 years) simply don't pay in taxes what it costs to provide public services to them.  I vote for a property tax increase.  If that means some builders can't develop 500 acres on the suburban fringe then so be it.  Sooner or later economics wins out and we have to develop in a tax-sustainable way (not the pie-in-the-sky growth model that thinks future development will pay the bonds taken out today to pay for things we want now but don't have the tax revenue to pay for as if future generations won't have their own tax needs).

I opted to live in the urban core which has a lower tax-expenditure footprint.  Why should I be penalized for other people's bad economic decisions with a sales tax increase?

[mtraininjax]

I voted for Curry, but it appears that the "Stupid Juice" from Alvin Brown's 4-years is being consumed by Curry. Why his chief of staffs, who have many years of experience are allowing him to scare the people of Jacksonville, instead of showing leadership, is beyond all comprehension.

If he cannot get enough people into believing in his program, why not scare the hell out of them with a 30% property tax increase? He is drinking heavily the "stupid juice". Stewart or Mousa need to get him off of it and get him back out in front of groups and educate the idiots who see this as a new tax.

A 30% property tax would screw the city in ways that the ignorance of 100 years never did.

[Tacachale]

btw Tacachale....it appears John Winkler is the man behind the website

Gotcha - it's John Winkler and the Concerned Taxpayers of Duval County". This is a watchdog group that opposes taxes as well as various municipal projects. Considering that they also seem to be against a property tax increase, their position just doesn't sound reasonable.

[JeffreyS]

This is my fault I just went under contract to purchase a home in Duval (Avondale specifically). Sorry. 

[camarocane]

Hmmm, bitter are we?

Blaming the pensioners and city employees for having a pension shows how much of the problem you actually understand...
They signed up for certain benefits, in many cases took lesser paying jobs for that pension. Why shouldn't they retain what they were promised?
To your last point, I believe the deal places all new employees on a 401K.

[coredumped]

Hmmm, bitter are we?

Blaming the pensioners and city employees for having a pension shows how much of the problem you actually understand...
They signed up for certain benefits, in many cases took lesser paying jobs for that pension. Why shouldn't they retain what they were promised?
To your last point, I believe the deal places all new employees on a 401K.

It's not a lesser paying job if you're GUARANTEED a retirement, and are pretty much guaranteed not to get fired. jlmann is right, why was such nonsense promised in the first place? And why are we still giving these insane benefits away?

And what about what we were promised? Competent city leaders? Why is it the government can just write checks, live outside its means, and when the bill comes due they just take more money from us?

Where is the compromise on the part of the police and fire pension? Why can't they give up something? Not all, but how about just a little? Heaven forbid we ask them to sacrifice for the good of the community.

Yet another government failure.

[Tacachale]

Under Curry's plan, the current employees will increase their contribution to 10%. Future hires will be moved into a less costly plan. But again, this isn't a problem that will be solved only by cutting services. It's just become too big of a problem over the years.

[camarocane]

It's not a lesser paying job if you're GUARANTEED a retirement, and are pretty much guaranteed not to get fired. jlmann is right, why was such nonsense promised in the first place? And why are we still giving these insane benefits away?

And what about what we were promised? Competent city leaders? Why is it the government can just write checks, live outside its means, and when the bill comes due they just take more money from us?

Where is the compromise on the part of the police and fire pension? Why can't they give up something? Not all, but how about just a little? Heaven forbid we ask them to sacrifice for the good of the community.

Yet another government failure.

Pension or not, it IS a lesser paying job, but that's beside the point. These folks signed up for a job with a pension, its not their fault it is underfunded, its not their burden to do something about it, but as Bill stated, their compromise will be the contribution increase to 10% and new hires will be moved to a 401k. Which begs the next question, do you not think firefighters or police sacrifice anything for the good of the community?! How about teachers? They are on the state pension, if that was underfunded would you be calling for them to lose it as well?
As far as competent leaders, I feel ya Coredumped. Its frustrating sometimes, I'm definitely not a proponent of the current administration. But the pension issue is something that needs to be fixed, however you cant, and shouldn't steamroll the employees for COJ's past decisions.

[brainstormer]

Still voting No. Curry just started running faster on his hamster wheel. At some point he will either fall off or collapse. He either isn't listening to advice he is being given or has gone rogue.

[mtraininjax]

Still voting No. Curry just started running faster on his hamster wheel. At some point he will either fall off or collapse. He either isn't listening to advice he is being given or has gone rogue.

Going to vote Yes in August, but I agree, Mousa and Stewart should be more out in front of this issue, they are going to have a helluva time getting the Mayor's left foot out of his mouth over the next few months.