Hemming Park Shocker: Friends of Hemming Out of Money

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

http://www.lowes.com/pd/KOHLER-Whitehaven-21-56-in-x-35-68-in-White-Single-Basin-Cast-Iron-Apron-Front-Farmhouse-Residential-Kitchen-Sink/999946410



Since everyone is hung up over a sink, f-ing get over it.  They don't all cost $1k, but it's right in-line with most of Kohler's brand that I'm sure the majority of you here already have or wouldn't blink twice if goes in your house.

And I do agree with Cat on this, "...tell me about a hammer that cost more than $10 or a lunch that costs more than I am willing to pay, and I'll have a righteous sense of outrage. Our city council is the same way."

Should FOHP be held accountable for every dime they spend?  Yes, without a doubt.  Should the city council be hammering them every time the payment is due?  Absolutely not.  But it's hard for them to compare FOHP's frivolous [used very liberally] spending to their own personal frivolous [not used as liberally] district spending because?

Dear City Council,

Pay them the money that was agreed upon when it's due.  Stop fighting them every inch because as long as people get the impression that you're against them, they're exponentially less likely to invest in a losing battle.  And every day that walk into work on the Monroe St. side (Under Construction BTW)ask yourself if the park looks better or worse.

Regards,

Common Sense

[CityLife]

I love how we're tangled over what amounts to somewhere around $20k in funds, yet we piss away LITERALLY  hundreds of millions on the Jaguars. We should just sell hemming park to shad khan so we can drop a decent amount of money on it without complaint.

Apples to oranges...and I think its a little more than $20k in funds. The biggest issue to me (and 2 others I've spoken to) with the article is that they didn't even know to solicit multiple quotes for the installation of the stage, and that they didn't realize as a non-profit they have the ability to leverage free or discounted labor. Everyone knows that contractors love a naïve government/public worker that doesn't know the true value of the project. This is one of the reasons governments have procurement policies. It's absurd to not get at least 3 quotes. Does the contract not require FOHP to follow COJ's procurement policies?

The real problem here to me is that FOHP was always going to have detractors and suburban politicians looking to cut/minimize funding. By them making these mistakes/missteps, they are only adding fuel to the fire and hurting the cause. There is zero room for error. The end result will be disinvestment in downtown over petty things that could have been avoided.

[Steve]

Another reason it's apples to oranges: The process with the Jags is transparent. You can argue that it's not the best use of money, but at least you know what they're asking for. Further, but both the Scoreboard and Pools, and with the other other improvements, the Jaguars are managing the construction in exchange with being responsible for cost overruns - this avoids the whole. "we need more money" argument.

[whyisjohngalt]

The original city contract explicitly outlined that private funds were to match city funds and create a sustainable business model.

The FOHP won the contract because they said they could do that.  The next time they went in front of the city, they got semantical about what could be "included" as private donations.  The contract has been "amended" several times since then in the favor of the FoHP and at the expense of the taxpayer.

There are several private individuals that have profited from this venture at the expense of the community.  This was always going to be the case as making this block generate $500,000 for sustainability wasn't ever going to happen - even with the direct support and promotion via DVI.  The goal for leadership now is to generate "vocal, community support" so that the city feels like it doesn't have a choice but to continue funding this sinkhole.  This article will make that tough but keep in mind that Wayne Wood and co. have started courting the mayor for budget as council support slips.

FoHP has clearly failed and will not be successful under current leadership.  This has been obvious for some time.  A new RFP should be issued by the city to find other interested parties in trying.  FoHP did succeed at getting the ball rolling on a private/public park and deserve credit for that but need to step away before they completely destroy any chance of public confidence in Hemming Plaza being sustainably successful.

[Tacachale]

I love how we're tangled over what amounts to somewhere around $20k in funds, yet we piss away LITERALLY  hundreds of millions on the Jaguars. We should just sell hemming park to shad khan so we can drop a decent amount of money on it without complaint.

Apples to oranges...and I think its a little more than $20k in funds. The biggest issue to me (and 2 others I've spoken to) with the article is that they didn't even know to solicit multiple quotes for the installation of the stage, and that they didn't realize as a non-profit they have the ability to leverage free or discounted labor. Everyone knows that contractors love a naïve government/public worker that doesn't know the true value of the project. This is one of the reasons governments have procurement policies. It's absurd to not get at least 3 quotes. Does the contract not require FOHP to follow COJ's procurement policies?

The real problem here to me is that FOHP was always going to have detractors and suburban politicians looking to cut/minimize funding. By them making these mistakes/missteps, they are only adding fuel to the fire and hurting the cause. There is zero room for error. The end result will be disinvestment in downtown over petty things that could have been avoided.

Well put.

[KenFSU]

The 'thousand dollar sink' incidentally, was for a three chambered sink required by law in order to qualify for liquor and beverage sales.

Having bought a number of them myself, they aren't cheap.

https://www.katom.com/189-143C18X240X.html?zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=32&zmap=189-143C18X240X&utm_source=google&utm_medium=adwords&utm_campaign=CSE&gclid=CjwKEAjwqpK8BRD7ua-U0orrgkESJADlN3YBmXBjBisD-GKPvG01cdFYkB70I0srMZiVCGbhsXm23BoCObzw_wcB

[whyisjohngalt]

These "sinks" might not be cheap, but even on the www.katom.com site you posted only 3 out of the top 25 results were over $1,000.

They don't cost over $1,000 when one is purchasing with sustainable intent.  I doubt they ordered from www.katom.com, anyways.  Probably purchased from a friendly source - something that the public / park system wouldn't allow - and something that should be investigated about this $1million dollar block.

[whyisjohngalt]

Went through the first four pages of www.amazon.com results for 3 compartment commercial sink and nothing over $1,000.

You obviously know more than I do about running a failed restaurant and FoHP are following your example.

By all means, defend them as you would yourself.

[TheCat]

Shall i start a new thread on installing a 3 compartment commercial sink?

[BennyKrik]

Criminal prosecution is next....there are no more excuses

[marty904]

The 'thousand dollar sink' incidentally, was for a three chambered sink required by law in order to qualify for liquor and beverage sales.

Having bought a number of them myself, they aren't cheap.

https://www.katom.com/189-143C18X240X.html?zmam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=32&zmap=189-143C18X240X&utm_source=google&utm_medium=adwords&utm_campaign=CSE&gclid=CjwKEAjwqpK8BRD7ua-U0orrgkESJADlN3YBmXBjBisD-GKPvG01cdFYkB70I0srMZiVCGbhsXm23BoCObzw_wcB

I suppose if you are a new restaurant or bar with funding, you could shop there.  Or if you were a non-profit with limited funds, you might consider shopping here: https://www.hotelrestaurantsupply.com/BKR-BK8BS-3-18-12.html
I've bought a couple myself, in former businesses, and never paid $1000 for one.

[mtraininjax]

Geez, Stephen, could you have picked out a more expensive freaking 3 compartment sink? I mean dang! You can find these sinks USED, in Jacksonville or you can buy new ones, not $1000 sinks. Having purchased used products for our facility, it ain't rocket science and you can get quotes for labor and plumbing services instead of using the most expensive ones in town, who see you as the worlds largest sucker. FOHP should be held accountable for these blatant wastes of taxpayer dollars. The so-called leaders are not even qualified to run a lemonade stand!

http://www.gsequipmentinc.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=sink
http://www.therdstore.com/page/IFSES/CTGY/DPSINK3
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/14927/3-compartment-sinks.html

This aint rocket science, I spent 5 minutes searching and found these links. The people in charge of money didn't care to do ANY research or look at any ways to stretch the money given, when it came to facilities. Why would they care about free food or t-shirts?

This is one of the reasons governments have procurement policies. It's absurd to not get at least 3 quotes. Does the contract not require FOHP to follow COJ's procurement policies?

No one from FOHP ever worked with the city? No one knows where their procurement office is located? Why not freakin ask someone? For this Cavin stands responsible, it's his butt on the block. Can't blame the people stuffing their face with free food, Cavin could have EVEN asked to use some of the city contractors for services under the same City Rates, he seems like a smart guy, the article should have discussed this further. I agree the City does a lousy job managing their facilities, but surely someone from the Neighborhoods department could have been assigned as a liaison to the city to help these FOHP with the project. Neighborhoods does this stuff every day. Again, not rocket science!

Since everyone is hung up over a sink, f-ing get over it.  They don't all cost $1k, but it's right in-line with most of Kohler's brand that I'm sure the majority of you here already have or wouldn't blink twice if goes in your house.

No one out here would put a $1000 sink in their house if their budget called for something less, a sink is a freakin sink.

And I do agree with Cat on this, "...tell me about a hammer that cost more than $10 or a lunch that costs more than I am willing to pay, and I'll have a righteous sense of outrage. Our city council is the same way."

Sure there is waste, all over the city, sure thing. But this waste happened RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE DARN CITY HALL, its not as if they could not see it out their friggin windows! Waste on baymeadows road is one thing, but waste in front of 117 West Duval? Come on!

Should FOHP be held accountable for every dime they spend?  Yes, without a doubt.  Should the city council be hammering them every time the payment is due?  Absolutely not.  But it's hard for them to compare FOHP's frivolous [used very liberally] spending to their own personal frivolous [not used as liberally] district spending because?

This is not a City Council Spending matter, its an FOHP matter. There are some VERY smart people on the FOHP, and they screwed up, royally, they should be held accountable for every dime spent on everything from here on out. If the project dies, it dies, better to let it die than waste 100,000s of more taxpayer dollars on something that cannot be held accountable.

I am very disappointed in the leadership of FOHP. Not a time for them to put their heads in the sand and disappear.

[mtraininjax]

The sinks can actually get a lot more expensive, and if you plan on using them for three years or more, you get them with warranty and installation.

FOHP is a startup, you don't know if you are going to have money for NEXT WEEK, let alone 3 years from now. You don't buy the 3-year warranty, cause you don't know if you will be around in 3 years. Hell they should have gone to a bank with their business plan, I can hear the laughter from the execs!

The FOHP plan was simple, fix the park and have events so people would come and pay. No one coming down needed a $1000 sink, sorry dude, not buying it! Gotta call BULLSHIT on that one!

Why thats not obvious, Im not sure.

Me neither!

But until the city pays the entire amount that they were previously paying to maintain that park and keep it programmed with activity, then the city should be freaking thankful for the cut in costs but the giant gain in services.

Why would the city throw bad money after good money? Let Cavin and Woods go out and get private donors to pour their money down the drain. The City should lease the land back to FOHP and do the same thing they did with Sleiman, let them maintain the facilities with their own funds.

No taxpayer dollars, no involvement, and ask a taxpayer for years longer than you, I have to say I would welcome more oversight by the council as would other taxpayers.

[mtraininjax]

Based on the latest spreadsheet available here: http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/investigates/action-news-jax-investigates-questionable-spending-by-friends-of-hemming-park/375218952

You have 5 positions that cost FOHP almost $220,000 per year. The CEO position is at $67k, the Marketing Director is at $54k, the volunteer coordinator is at 36k and Ambassador 1 at $33k and Ambassador 2 at $30k. Meaning, these folks need $220,000 a year for salary....alone. Kudos to Cavin for cutting back salaries, they were running at $288k in March, then they cut back on an Ambassador and an Operations Manager, saving almost $70k a year.

Some of these expenses are stupid, someone got a parking ticket, it got reimbursed, the group is spending $2000-$3000 a month on marketing alone in print publications. Throwing money around in Arbus, Jax Magazine, The White Publishing Group, FOLIO....doesn't anyone help them with a media buying? They have been in exhistence for 2 years, so why is it they seem to use so many publications and Facebook, without a consistent message? By now, they should know their audience, based on patronage.

Examine them yourself, I only looked at the last quarter, March 2016 - June 2016.

I am sure Stephen's Gold Plated 3-year warranty Sink is in these files somewhere...

[mtraininjax]

How about coming clean Stephen over the FOHP mess, like this entry in the records.....

03/30/2015   Check   290   MetroJacksonville.com   Invoice #1182047   1100   1100 Everbank Checking
            Monthly Calendar Cards   6510   6510 Program Permitting:Marketing Support

There are many other "instances" of MJ providing paid services to FOHP during 2015, are there others in 2014 or 2016?

Its fine and dandy to get on your soap box and fight the good fight for your friends, but come clean and let everyone know that MJ was and may still be a vendor with FOHP.

In the essence of decency......

Anytime you want to go toe to toe with me on business, Stephen, bring it.....The family biz built here in Jax lasted 33 years till we sold out to a west coast firm, and for this I was a bit younger than 18, and we're still building new businesses in Jacksonville.....like I said....anytime.