The Sad Saga of 439 East First Street

[mbwright]

Maybe code enf should be called on her place of residence....I'm sure there is something wrong, or even if not, might be fun.

[menace1069]

Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

[sheclown]

Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.

[mbwright]

When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished.  End of Story.

[menace1069]

When a neighborhood has a Historic designation, none of the homes should be demolished.  End of Story.

Agreed! If the entire neighborhood has the designation, then nothing should be touched. 

[menace1069]

Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.

Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?

[strider]

Here's what I don't get...people upset about houses being torn down, houses that have sat vacant for years with no attention. Obviously, no one cares except those complaining about them being torn down. maybe the whiners need to start purchasing these houses one by one and renovating/preserving them instead of letting them sit for years decaying.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the older Victorian houses in Springfield. They are beautiful and I can see how awesome they once were and what they could be restored to be. If I won the powerball, I would buy blocks of homes in Springfield and restore them.
But if no one is buying them and they are just sitting there decaying, what good are they? How long are they expected to sit there? Until the "right" person comes along? Pffft. If the preservationists cared so much about them, then start collecting private donations and renovate them one by one and then sell them. Move on to the next one.
Stop whining and start doing.
Just my .02 worth...

I guess you haven't been paying attention.

PSOS HAS been handing over houses to those who have the resources to renovate them.  We HAVE been doing Make it Happen events to help houses before they get to the point of being "an emergency".  We HAVE been doing these things and the pages of Metro Jacksonville have our story.

However the point is NOT what the preservationists have failed to do, but rather what the city has failed to do and that is to follow its own ordinances. Ordinances which REQUIRE the protection of historic properties.

Perhaps if corruption wasn't rampant in this town, there would actually be money available for saving these old houses.

Money from where..the city? Why should the city save these houses? I don't want my tax dollars saving houses. If someone wants to save a house, then buy it. Otherwise, why is the city obligated to save the house?

I hear what you're saying about the corruption and the city not following rules...I understand that and am with you 100%. Follow the rules. Have the homes been declared "historic"? If so, then they shouldn't be touched...but if not, if no one else cares enough to buy the house or get it on a historical list, then let the city tear it down AFTER it has gone through the proper protocol.
But I don't agree with the city spending tax dollars to save old vacant houses that have been sitting there with no interest from anyone.

The city is spending MORE to demolish than it would to mothball it.  I agree that the city shouldn't be in the business of rehabbing historic houses.

And yes, this house is a CONTRIBUTING structure in a Nationally Recognized Historic District.

Well that's dumb. What is their reasoning? Do they fall back on the "it's not a safe structure" excuse? If not, what's the deal?

Look at just this one set of facts.  A bid to do only the addition and stabilize the main house was $25K ish. There was also a complete demo bid at about $28K. They hired the demo contractor who they most often use (or his uncles company in which case essentially the same people do the work) for emergency demo's and I think a majority of the regular demolitions done in Jacksonville. The complete demo was done with many MCCD employees around, the added cost of an engineer to say the floor was wavy and the final cost listed on the week late permit as $50K. Even using the higher complete demo cost as a comparison, that was $22K EXTRA for the demolition. And they had to get a Lawyer to change the Final Order and the city had to break other laws to do it that way.  Where do you think all or part of the extra $22K ended up?

[Gunnar]

It seems like the city should have been able to do quite some repairs to the house for $50K...

[mbwright]

The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.  Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house.  Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos.  It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things.  Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others.  It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.

[menace1069]

The problem with that scenario is that the demo guy (favored buddy) does not get work, and MCCD does not get a kick back (speculation) and an opportunity to pat themselves on the back.  Had they spent $50K on stabilization/restoration, it would have added value to the house.  Very sad that a HISTORIC neighborhood has ZERO PROTECTION, and ZERO consequences for those involved with all of these demos.  It should be criminal, but I guess you can't charge MCCD with something that would change their way of doing things.  Just imagine if this area was complete, like Savannah, Charleston, and others.  It would be a greatly improved property tax generating area.

See, that's what I don't get about Jacksonville. We have some absolutely BEAUTIFUL Victorian homes in the Springfield area and I would think that people would be snapping them right up to restore and habitat or sell them.
I have lived in both Savannah and Charleston and it is truly awesome when people take the time to renovate or restore a historic home.