Jaguars amphitheater, flex field construction to begin next month

[KenFSU]

Venues of this size have been the trend for many touring acts for years. We miss out because we have a lack of this type of venue in our metro area. Many if not most of the acts in this category we do get are playing out at the St. Augustine Amphitheater (which is 45 miles away) or Ponte Vedra Concert Hall (out in the middle of nowhere). So a lot of people who'd otherwise go to those concerts miss out because of the distance.

I don't make it to many local concerts, but if a lot of these acts really wanted to come to Jax, wouldn't Veterans Memorial be an acceptable alternative, even if they just filled the lower sections?  Or is the outdoor amphitheater component a make-or-break factor in most cases?

Simply too cost prohibitive, not to mention risky. The difference in cost in renting, rigging, powering, and staffing a 15,000 seat indoor arena and 5,500 seat amphitheater is night and day. I'd guess $20k rental fee alone for an arena versus maybe $7500 for an ampitheater. And that's paid up front, whether the event sells out or draws 10 fans.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

But, I am skeptical that its programming will be dominated by crappy country musicians and third-tier, washed up has-beens.  I hope I am wrong, but remain doubtful.

Zero reason to be doubtful.

A 5,500 seat amphitheater is the perfect sweet spot these days for awesome artists too big for the Florida Theater or Times-Union Center, but too small to sell out an arena.

I certainly wouldn't expect third-tier, washed up has beens, or crappy country musicians to dominate the bill. Think Lumineers, Fifth Harmony, Alabama Shakes, Walk the Moon, Counting Crows, Third Eye Blind, Chvrches, Frank Ocean, Aretha Franklin, Josh Groban, Dashboard Confessional, Bob Dylan, Willie Nelson, Meagen Trainer, Smashing Pumpkins, Florence + The Machine, Chicago, Skrillex, Sarah McLachlan, etc. These are the types of artists who tour the ~5,000 seat venue circuit, and there's zero reason to believe promoters won't be chomping at the bit to tap into a market of 1.3 million that has never had an appropriate sized venue for such acts.

I don't disagree there is a market out there, but, from what i have seen of the talent promoters and bookers in Jacksonville, I have little faith they will come through on acts like the above.  I'd love to be proved wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SMG in charge of booking talent for our public venues?  I'm not sure what compensation they get, if any, regardless of the talent or amount of shows hosted v/s doing nothing and enjoying their contractual fees.

With Khan having a bottom line incentive to fill seats at the venue, I would believe that he'd be more inclined to bring in acts that people want to see.   

[KenFSU]

^One thing's for sure, I guarantee you that Khan and Lamping will put on a very, very special event to open the new facilities.

[Steve]

Venues of this size have been the trend for many touring acts for years. We miss out because we have a lack of this type of venue in our metro area. Many if not most of the acts in this category we do get are playing out at the St. Augustine Amphitheater (which is 45 miles away) or Ponte Vedra Concert Hall (out in the middle of nowhere). So a lot of people who'd otherwise go to those concerts miss out because of the distance.

I don't make it to many local concerts, but if a lot of these acts really wanted to come to Jax, wouldn't Veterans Memorial be an acceptable alternative, even if they just filled the lower sections?  Or is the outdoor amphitheater component a make-or-break factor in most cases?

Besides the costs (previously mentioned), there's also just the image part of it. When you play in front of a 5000 person crowd in a facility designed to hold 15,000, it looks cavernous and the show isn't amazing. If the facility and acoustics are designed for 5000 and there is 5000 people there, it's much different.

[vicupstate]

Too many people fall prey to thinking that the City is choosing to use money that could be used for anything else to fund stadium improvements. 

The money used to fund this as well as other stadium improvements comes from the tourist/bed tax.  By law, a portion of that revenue is dedicated to being spent in the stadium/entertainment district.  I am sure there are other improvements in the area those funds could be used for but again, those funds can only be used in that district.  This fact is further solidified in that the tax allocation is part of the lease with the Jaguars.

Arguably, an improved stadium and amphitheater will bring additional tourists to additional events generating even more tax to fund these expenditures.    These improvements by themselves dont push development but more activity downtown generally does.

This is completely false, icarus.  It keeps getting repeated by fans of the jags, but in reality its from a tourism tax whose wording is so broad that it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops.

This tax is NOT set aside for specifically stadium improvements.

Stephen, you are right that it is not exclusively for stadium improvements, but you are very wrong on saying "it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops." 1/3 of the 6% bed tax is used for tourism promotion (mostly Visit Jacksonville), another 1/3 is used to continue to pay off the bonds for the initial construction of the stadium, and the last 1/3 is for the Sports Complex Capital Maintenance Enterprise Fund. That fund is "to be used exclusively to construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, or maintain the sports complex." The sports complex is defined as "the arena, baseball stadium, convention center, football stadium, performing arts center and equestrian center." (Ordinance 2009-817-E). There is nothing broad about that wording. This project is specifically what the tax is designed to be used for. The amphitheater will absolutely draw tourists from surrounding counties, which is the goal of the bed tax by the way, and depending on how big the acts or events to be held there are, will certainly draw tourists from around the country. I don't get why we are even discussing money any more for this project. We should just be glad they actually broke ground on it, unlike a lot of other proposed projects in this city.

This is correct, but it has only been in the recent past that this became  true, and only because of the Jags had it changed.

These taxes were originally meant for ANY tourist related function including not only capital projects but also marketing and promotion.  There were no built-in stipulations on what percentage was spent on any project, function or 'district'.  When the Jags came one third went to build the stadium.  Since then ANOTHER third has been legislated to be dedicated to the 'sports district'.  That was done only a few years ago and at the behest of the Jags. 

The final one third is now, and always has been, dedicated to tourism marketing. Obviously it is  paltry sum given the amounts spent on similar size metros and by the fact the city is virtually devoid of a common image or reputation.   

the last 1/3 is for the Sports Complex Capital Maintenance Enterprise Fund. That fund is "to be used exclusively to construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, or maintain the sports complex." The sports complex is defined as "the arena, baseball stadium, convention center, football stadium, performing arts center and equestrian center." (Ordinance 2009-817-E).

I got the answer to my question of WHEN the change was made to dedicate a SECOND  third of the Bed Tax to the 'Stadium District'.  It was 2009.  Not that long ago, it could have been spent anywhere in Duval County (840 Square miles) but now must be spent within one square mile.  The same square mile that probably $500-1100 mm has already been invested in the last 20 years.   

I acknowledge that Tourism funds can't be spent directly on the Pension, but any city that is in the deep financial hole that JAX is in, should strongly analyse how it is spending money on anything, let alone $45mm. Detroit declared bankruptcy yet had owned one of the finest collections of art anywhere in the world.  I'm sure the money spent on that art was from 'dedicated' sources, but that doesn't change the irony one bit.

The very same funds being used to build this new facility, are the same funds that were available for a Convention Center pre-2009. They are also the same funds used to MAINTAIN the existing facilities. That expense will NOW be paid out of GENERAL FUNDS.  GENERAL FUNDS, btw are what are used to pay the PENSION.       

Someone asked when the FIRST third of Bed Tax used to build the initial stadium will be freed up from those bonds.  That is an excellent question. I have NO doubt that Mr. Shad knows the answer and has designs to keep in dedicated to the 'Stadium District'     

[Tacachale]

MAYBE IF YOU SHOUT A FEW MORE TIMES THEY'LL UNDERSTAND.

[RattlerGator]

Come on, Tacachale, don't encourage MMR!

[RattlerGator]

spuwho, that's a beautiful 7:54 a.m. write-up this morning but I've fully comprehended where stephendare is coming from. He's been very clear about that. The problem isn't his personal opinion. The problem is the phenomenal disrespect he shows not only for the wishes of the people in this community (they don't happen to share his opinion, of that there can be no doubt) but his equally phenomenal disrespect for a premier business in this community. One of only 32 in the nation.

I don't give a damn if the NFL or Shad Khan isn't his cup of tea, but spare me this juvenile nonsense of prancing about in the comments as if his subjective opinion is something other than precisely that, extremely subjective.

At the risk of further agitating the board censors I refer back to one particular comment in this thread, and then hope to leave the stephendare sub-discussion alone:

If you actually lived in Jacksonville, you would probably be better acquainted with our taxes and processes.

Well, spuwho, given the comments that followed it appears stephendare needs to become better acquainted with the taxes and processes of the City of Jacksonville.

And Jacksonville doesn't need a 'savior'.

Hmmmmm. Who, spuwho, other than stephendare himself said anything about a savior?

It needs an activated business community and empowered citizens.

How, spuwho, have the Jaguars and Shad Khan not helped to activate our business community or strived to encourage entrepreneurship in our citizens?

Thats the only formula that works anyways.

spuwho, can't you hear the therapist right now? "Hello Mr. OohHeIsSoSmuglySuperSmartWhileHeYawns, come right on in."

That's Casting Aspersions 101, spuwho, and straight out of the stephendare playbook. The next two sentences, however, are where stephendare IMHO really takes the cake.

Your posts, frankly, have the quality of a fanatic, and its hard to take them seriously.

Well, spuwho, I bet my posts are hard to take seriously when one doesn't have a legitimate argument to counter them so one is reduced to -- yeah, wait for it! -- casting aspersions while engaging in some classic projection activity. Fanatic, did he say? Pot, meet kettle.

Especially since they are so aggressive and attack doglike to anyone who criticizes a billion dollar sports tax parasite like the NFL.

So now, spuwho, are you casually following the insult? Black Boy RG is an animal and Colored Boy owner of the NFL franchise SK is a parasite. That is, I should add, if I'm to employ the level of discourse stephendare claims for himself on this board but winces (and worse) when it is returned in kind.

No, spuwho, I think I've comprehended SD from the very beginning.

[RattlerGator]

About Shad Kahn, spuwho wrote:

I cant speak for Stephen, but if the Jaguars or Mr Khan spent $20M on civic assets that had no direct financial benefit to them, his posture might be different.

This begs the question, spuwho: how can stephendare possibly know what Shad has and has not done in this community along the lines of philanthropy?

The answer: he can't; stephendare is no gatekeeper Shad Khan must answer to. Of course, sd is still free to delight in his status as slave to original project renderings. Bully!

[pierre]

wow.  it almost looks the same.

Like if it were repackaged by Big Lots ten years after it had become a 'thing'.

wow.  what a bait and switch.

LOL, did you just quote and reply to yourself?

[icarus]

lol. apparently I did.  Btw, does anyone in this thread think that when people refer to the military industrial complex, that there is a district somewhere that all the  military and the industrials are co located?

Cecil Field? ;-)

[jaxjaguar]

One thing to note about the flowing design of the other rendering, is that it's largely an elevated walkway. Depending on future developments it could always be added later. The street facing facade is mostly the same aside from the pretty gold facets and how close to the street it is. We'll see when it's all finished how it looks.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

wow.  it almost looks the same.

Like if it were repackaged by Big Lots ten years after it had become a 'thing'.

Thanks to Brandon Poarch for creating the comparison graphic.

I'm pretty sure this is what happened after the DIA review.  The first set of renderings didn't fit the current landscape to their liking. 

[KenFSU]

The flowing, elevated walkway was never intended to be part of the Phase 2 construction, but instead part of a third phase to be completed alongside future development to the south of the stadium. This was never a secret and was discussed openly at the State of the Jaguars event earlier this year. If you watch the video from the January reveal, you can clearly see that that aspect of the project is retrofitted onto the main structure, which looks very, very close to the new renders, if we're not comparing the most flattering pictures from the original renders to the least flattering pictures from the new.

[spuwho]

About Shad Kahn, spuwho wrote:

I cant speak for Stephen, but if the Jaguars or Mr Khan spent $20M on civic assets that had no direct financial benefit to them, his posture might be different.

This begs the question, spuwho: how can stephendare possibly know what Shad has and has not done in this community along the lines of philanthropy?

The answer: he can't; stephendare is no gatekeeper Shad Khan must answer to. Of course, sd is still free to delight in his status as slave to original project renderings. Bully!

RG,

I think you read a little too much in my nice early morning post.  I was trying to add context to the discussion by relating to an opposing viewpoint.

Maybe if you take the Donald Trump fan approach, just listen to what he means and not what he says, you might go farther in your discussions.

Otherwise, you should probably move on.