Jaguars amphitheater, flex field construction to begin next month

[mtraininjax]

The city got an amphitheater with some of the best amenities for an amphitheater in the country. The Jags got a practice facility.

We also get a real shot at the NFL draft. Its like a mini-super bowl over the course of a week. The weather is still very nice in April in Jax.

[RattlerGator]

Good morning. It's great to be back home for a game day even if it's a preseason game. And what better way to start a game day than to wade back into this particular thread, huh?

^To be fair, the city is shelling out a substantial amount of money on this thing because it's supposed to be much more than a practice facility. Just saying...

And it very obviously *is* much, much more than that. By far. And what is it with people on here insisting we in Jacksonville, alone, must be slaves to the original renderings of construction projects?

I have to say, the bitch-and-moan crowd have not disappointed nor has their stunning lack of vision. I mean, tufsu1 wants to demand! better. Seriously, how crazy is that take? Demand better, as if some citizens group or city council kaffeeklatsch operating (no doubt) as some sort of Politburo could have come remotely close to this.

Please.

And vicupstate, still waxing rhapsodic somewhere no doubt about the wonders of Greenville, SC, is -- honestly -- shaking his head. Keep honestly shaking that head, bwah. And give my regards to Governor Haley, won't you? But spuwho, I think, takes the bitch-and-moan cake this time around. Upon an announcement of Jacksonville creating something that is probably unique in all the world, let alone the South or the nation, a creativity that is sure to be duplicated elsewhere because of its -- wait for it! -- creative use of space and utilitarian integration of event possibilities, we get a nattering-nabob-of-negativism list that shows absolutely no love for Big Duval at all.

Tongue-in-cheek, spuwho? Hopefully so.

Special mention, however, has to go to ProjectMaximus. "I am a fan of Khan and will roll with him til I have obvious reason to lose faith, but I would much rather him be the saviour of the Barnett Building and Laura Trio than some new stadium/convention district." Wowza. I had to re-read that jaw-dropping sentence just to be sure I didn't read it wrong. The Barnett Building and the Laura Trio over a new, fully formed entertainment district for the region that brings real after-hours life to downtown? Um . . . alrighty then.

And Ennis, we'll just have to archive this and see what the near future brings:

Interesting. The only way this happens is if he pays for it.
I definitely don't see the city coming up with the cash for a hotel or convention
center at Metropolitan Park. If he does, more power to him because it would
be a great example of putting his money where his mouth is on something
that typically is a money loser.

The only way, did you say? We shall see about that.

Go Jaguars !!! DuvalTillWeDie !!!

[jaxjaguar]

In response to the people saying "quit your bitching". Don't get me wrong I'm happy that we're getting this and it's definitely better than what any other team has to offer. I didn't expect to original renderings to happen, but lamping did say about a month ago that the previous renderings were pretty much unchanged when compared to what will be built. Are they similar? Yes. Are they pretty much unchanged? No.

Again, I'm happy and I'm sure they'll look great in person. Khan hasn't disappointed us yet with any of his projects.

[vicupstate]

And vicupstate, still waxing rhapsodic somewhere no doubt about the wonders of Greenville, SC, is -- honestly -- shaking his head. Keep honestly shaking that head, bwah. And give my regards to Governor Haley, won't you?

Gov. Haley will be looking for work soon, you are more than welcome to have her.

I have a hard time understanding why a city that is facing a pension crisis that is debilitating to any other level of (non-NFL) progress, is so willing to fork over enormous treasure for a gold-plated sports venue. A venue it will derive no revenue from, nor have any control over. One in which clearly a bait and switch has occurred on the design.  The time frame to build this thing is extremely tight yet they chose to not complete the design (assuming it actually is complete now) until after the city had committed the money and gotten the whole town 'bought-in' on fantasy architecture.  Admittedly, after  the Shipyards dream that crashed into reality, this would be expected I suppose.

Just as the Stadium/Arena/Baseball park haven't brought revitalization to the Northbank. Don't kid yourselves that this will either.  Any hotel that would be built would require huge incentives and cannibalize business from other DT hotels as much as bring in additional business.  Anyone that believes a convention center is coming would be a good prospective buyer for the Brooklyn Bridge. 

     

[icarus]

Too many people fall prey to thinking that the City is choosing to use money that could be used for anything else to fund stadium improvements. 

The money used to fund this as well as other stadium improvements comes from the tourist/bed tax.  By law, a portion of that revenue is dedicated to being spent in the stadium/entertainment district.  I am sure there are other improvements in the area those funds could be used for but again, those funds can only be used in that district.  This fact is further solidified in that the tax allocation is part of the lease with the Jaguars.

Arguably, an improved stadium and amphitheater will bring additional tourists to additional events generating even more tax to fund these expenditures.    These improvements by themselves dont push development but more activity downtown generally does.

[ProjectMaximus]

Special mention, however, has to go to ProjectMaximus. "I am a fan of Khan and will roll with him til I have obvious reason to lose faith, but I would much rather him be the saviour of the Barnett Building and Laura Trio than some new stadium/convention district." Wowza. I had to re-read that jaw-dropping sentence just to be sure I didn't read it wrong. The Barnett Building and the Laura Trio over a new, fully formed entertainment district for the region that brings real after-hours life to downtown? Um . . . alrighty then.

Wow! Sometimes the loudest talker is the most uninformed. I read your comment more than twice and can't stop shaking my head. If you'd sincerely like to engage then someone might be willing to explain, but given your history I feel like you're not actually seeking a thoughtful reply.

[RattlerGator]

Stephen, I think the point icarus is making (in part) to vicupstate (and perhaps others) is why consistently toss in strawman arguments? Arguments like the pension crisis. What does the pension crisis have to do with the tourist tax money? The answer is nothing. The tourist tax money can't help solve that problem so quit with that nonsense.

And ProjectMaximus, that's not even a sophomore-level attempt at a dodge of a very clear juxtaposition of *your* stated preference for the Barnett/LauraStreetTrio over what an overwhelming majority of people would surely prefer. You may not like that, but dems be da faks of da matter.

Go find yourself a billionaire that wants to contribute millions of his or her personal money into those downtown buildings and I'm sure the city would look favorably on bestowing some incentive money for your stated preference, too.

[RattlerGator]

And while I'm at it . . .

John Oehser is a writer for the Jaguars and he properly captured, in part, what all of this means:

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article-Editorial/View-from-the-O-Zone-A-future-altering-vision/b48353d3-391c-43a5-85c8-8d29e3239bb7

The world's largest video boards ...

The state-of-the-art locker rooms ...

The pools and cabanas on the north end zone deck ...

The state-of-the-art training facility ...

The US Assure Clubs ...

That's five ellipse-worthy renovations/re-imaginations in less than five years as owner, and when you watched the video Friday with the renderings for the flex field and the amphitheater ...

Well, when you watched that, you got the idea that all of the renovations in the last five years might somehow seem like a prelude come next May.

That's the target date for amphitheater/flex field completion, and if the mind reels at the thought of such a project going from shovel to ribbon-cutting in nine months, the mind equally reels at what might still be to come.

"What's next for Jacksonville? Well, that's up to all of us here today," Khan told those gathered in the construction space just south of the 'Bank Friday morning. "The greatest cities in America don't ask for permission to move forward. They dream big, make decisions and take action.

"Every city has potential. It's a matter of recognizing it and making the most of it. Jacksonville as we see today now is making the most of its potential. I along with a lot of other people just love it."[/b]

For you nattering nabobs of negativism, have y'all honestly not figured out the so-called "flex field" is a whopping 94,000 square-foot, convention-center-quality and column-free Exhibit Hall? Seriously? That structure, alone, is a phenomenal addition to downtown Jacksonville.

Has it also not dawned upon y'all that the world-class dressing rooms and prep spaces for the amphitheater have dual applicability to the Exhibit Hall / Flex Field? And, oh by the way, the space also brings into simultaneous play the unique zones of EverBank Field itself? The *patios* for the US Assure clubs on each side of the stadium, alone, are 18,780 square feet of available space to be creatively utilized. I don't know how many square feet of covered club space each US Assure club has but the Jaguars claimed the entire club seat renovations, including the patios, covered 135,000 square feet.

It might help some of the doubters if you looked at all of the individual spaces at the EverBank Field Complex not from a sports stadium viewpoint but from a convention center perspective. Because that is the potential that must be comprehended for you to begin to assess what has been done and *is* potentially being done. Shad Khan has probably ALREADY pitched that vision to some developers and probably already has some interest in building that convention center hotel he rather deftly mentioned during his press availability. Presuming that sales tax for pensions initiative in the City gets approved, look for a convention center hotel announcement within the next year. It might even happen if Mayor Curry's pension solution is voted down.

[Tacachale]

The bed tax money going into this project is indeed set aside only for use in the stadium district by city law. Has been for years. If folks don't like it, lobby City Council to change the law, but even then its use is still limited to what bed tax can be used for.

It seems to me that we can either complain that the project costs too much of city money, or that the design is too cheap, but not both. The city's only paying half; this is a lot of work (all owned by the City) for $45 million.

[Jax-Nole]

Too many people fall prey to thinking that the City is choosing to use money that could be used for anything else to fund stadium improvements. 

The money used to fund this as well as other stadium improvements comes from the tourist/bed tax.  By law, a portion of that revenue is dedicated to being spent in the stadium/entertainment district.  I am sure there are other improvements in the area those funds could be used for but again, those funds can only be used in that district.  This fact is further solidified in that the tax allocation is part of the lease with the Jaguars.

Arguably, an improved stadium and amphitheater will bring additional tourists to additional events generating even more tax to fund these expenditures.    These improvements by themselves dont push development but more activity downtown generally does.

This is completely false, icarus.  It keeps getting repeated by fans of the jags, but in reality its from a tourism tax whose wording is so broad that it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops.

This tax is NOT set aside for specifically stadium improvements.

Stephen, you are right that it is not exclusively for stadium improvements, but you are very wrong on saying "it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops." 1/3 of the 6% bed tax is used for tourism promotion (mostly Visit Jacksonville), another 1/3 is used to continue to pay off the bonds for the initial construction of the stadium, and the last 1/3 is for the Sports Complex Capital Maintenance Enterprise Fund. That fund is "to be used exclusively to construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, or maintain the sports complex." The sports complex is defined as "the arena, baseball stadium, convention center, football stadium, performing arts center and equestrian center." (Ordinance 2009-817-E). There is nothing broad about that wording. This project is specifically what the tax is designed to be used for. The amphitheater will absolutely draw tourists from surrounding counties, which is the goal of the bed tax by the way, and depending on how big the acts or events to be held there are, will certainly draw tourists from around the country. I don't get why we are even discussing money any more for this project. We should just be glad they actually broke ground on it, unlike a lot of other proposed projects in this city.

[icarus]

I don't get why we are even discussing money any more for this project. We should just be glad they actually broke ground on it, unlike a lot of other proposed projects in this city.

My original post was in response to Vicupstate saying he wasn't sure why a pension strapped City was spending money on this.  Whenever a topic in this forum relates to money, budget or just general finances, commentors like to parade out the utopian Jaguars Stadium and how we waste so much money on it that could be used for anything and everything else.

My point, previously, and in this thread is that the bed tax funds are not general revenue money that can be used for anything other than in the sports complex.  Stephen and I have argued over this point before as it related to the scoreboards and I even posted links to the City's lease agreements with the Jaguars and amendments thereto which contractually put further restrictions on what these tax funds can be used for.( Providing another in depth lecture on law and finance to Stephen was not my point.)  No, the City has real legal and contractual limitations on what this money can be used for.  Personally, I feel quite strongly that this particular use is better than the scoreboards although I have no interest in debating that.

RattlerGator, yes, my point was specifically that I get tired of the strawman argument ... but what about the money from the stadium ...

And, as to the Laura Street Trio and other downtown wish lists, I think the better and more salient point is the CRA funds:
https://www.municode.com/library/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITVADPE_CH111SPRETRAC_PT6ECCODE_S111.640SOCRTRFUNODOCRTRFUDOINAU

The Downtown Investment Authority, led by Aundra Wallace, allowed $4.6 million of available development money to sunset by inaction and be therefore available as general funds to the City Council.  In case you dont understand that, we had $4.6 million for downtown development projects and we didn't use it.

[tufsu1]

The city got an amphitheater with some of the best amenities for an amphitheater in the country. The Jags got a practice facility.

really....who says?

[vicupstate]

Too many people fall prey to thinking that the City is choosing to use money that could be used for anything else to fund stadium improvements. 

The money used to fund this as well as other stadium improvements comes from the tourist/bed tax.  By law, a portion of that revenue is dedicated to being spent in the stadium/entertainment district.  I am sure there are other improvements in the area those funds could be used for but again, those funds can only be used in that district.  This fact is further solidified in that the tax allocation is part of the lease with the Jaguars.

Arguably, an improved stadium and amphitheater will bring additional tourists to additional events generating even more tax to fund these expenditures.    These improvements by themselves dont push development but more activity downtown generally does.

This is completely false, icarus.  It keeps getting repeated by fans of the jags, but in reality its from a tourism tax whose wording is so broad that it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops.

This tax is NOT set aside for specifically stadium improvements.

Stephen, you are right that it is not exclusively for stadium improvements, but you are very wrong on saying "it could actually be used to fund anything from a beaches leap frog competition to more cops." 1/3 of the 6% bed tax is used for tourism promotion (mostly Visit Jacksonville), another 1/3 is used to continue to pay off the bonds for the initial construction of the stadium, and the last 1/3 is for the Sports Complex Capital Maintenance Enterprise Fund. That fund is "to be used exclusively to construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, or maintain the sports complex." The sports complex is defined as "the arena, baseball stadium, convention center, football stadium, performing arts center and equestrian center." (Ordinance 2009-817-E). There is nothing broad about that wording. This project is specifically what the tax is designed to be used for. The amphitheater will absolutely draw tourists from surrounding counties, which is the goal of the bed tax by the way, and depending on how big the acts or events to be held there are, will certainly draw tourists from around the country. I don't get why we are even discussing money any more for this project. We should just be glad they actually broke ground on it, unlike a lot of other proposed projects in this city.

This is correct, but it has only been in the recent past that this became  true, and only because of the Jags had it changed.

These taxes were originally meant for ANY tourist related function including not only capital projects but also marketing and promotion.  There were no built-in stipulations on what percentage was spent on any project, function or 'district'.  When the Jags came one third went to build the stadium.  Since then ANOTHER third has been legislated to be dedicated to the 'sports district'.  That was done only a few years ago and at the behest of the Jags. 

The final one third is now, and always has been, dedicated to tourism marketing. Obviously it is  paltry sum given the amounts spent on similar size metros and by the fact the city is virtually devoid of a common image or reputation.   

[jaxjags]

I love these debates about tax monies and how they are spent. It always brings me to my favorite subject : Jacksonville is on of the least taxed city in the US for it's size. If we are willing to be taxed more I'm sure we can have Barnett Bank, The Trio, The Shipyards, an iconic DT park, a real "street car" system, etc. But no one in leadership has the where with all to propose and fight for tax increases. And the taxes will NOT decrease business expansion. The Amazons, banks, etc. look at that but it is not the sole criteria we are judged on. It is true that the cities that have resources don't ask. They dream and do.

[Jax-Nole]

Has anyone heard what will happen to the current practice fields once the flex field is finished? Will they continue to be maintained as practice fields, or can we expect a redevelopment proposal to be a part of the Jaguars State of the Franchise address after the season ends?