Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

[finehoe]

For the first time in more than 60 years, firearms and automobiles are killing Americans at an identical rate, according to new mortality data released by the government.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/17/guns-are-now-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_wonkblog-guns-3pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

[JeffreyS]

Hmmm so cars are heavily regulated, registered and continually studied and this government involvement makes them much safer. Who could've guessed?

[coredumped]

While the chart isn't wrong, there's more to consider than the headline.
According to wikipedia in the US per 100,000:
10.64 (as the chart indicates) is death by firearm

HOWEVER, what the chart doesn't tell you is 6.70 of those are Suicides. 0.16 is unintentional, 0.09 is undetermined on only 3.55 is homicide.

While 3.55 for homicide is too much (.01 is too much!) subtracting suicide drops the number to more than half, which would also be half of car deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So in reality, firearm related death per 100,000 due to homicide is 3.55, not the 10+ you may perceive from the chart.

[PeeJayEss]

What did we ever do to these guns and these cars that makes them want to kill us so badly?

[Adam White]

While the chart isn't wrong, there's more to consider than the headline.
According to wikipedia in the US per 100,000:
10.64 (as the chart indicates) is death by firearm

HOWEVER, what the chart doesn't tell you is 6.70 of those are Suicides. 0.16 is unintentional, 0.09 is undetermined on only 3.55 is homicide.

While 3.55 for homicide is too much (.01 is too much!) subtracting suicide drops the number to more than half, which would also be half of car deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So in reality, firearm related death per 100,000 due to homicide is 3.55, not the 10+ you may perceive from the chart.

But you wouldn't argue that those deaths weren't caused by guns, right? Surely that's the issue. In a gun-free society, there wouldn't be any gun-related deaths (regardless of type).

I have a friend who blew his brains out. He might've done it another way had he not owned a gun (or a few guns). But to me, he's gone forever and he did it with a gun. I think it would've hurt just as bad if he'd have been shot by someone else.

[spuwho]

While the chart isn't wrong, there's more to consider than the headline.
According to wikipedia in the US per 100,000:
10.64 (as the chart indicates) is death by firearm

HOWEVER, what the chart doesn't tell you is 6.70 of those are Suicides. 0.16 is unintentional, 0.09 is undetermined on only 3.55 is homicide.

While 3.55 for homicide is too much (.01 is too much!) subtracting suicide drops the number to more than half, which would also be half of car deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So in reality, firearm related death per 100,000 due to homicide is 3.55, not the 10+ you may perceive from the chart.

But you wouldn't argue that those deaths weren't caused by guns, right? Surely that's the issue. In a gun-free society, there wouldn't be any gun-related deaths (regardless of type).

I have a friend who blew his brains out. He might've done it another way had he not owned a gun (or a few guns). But to me, he's gone forever and he did it with a gun. I think it would've hurt just as bad if he'd have been shot by someone else.

I have found that even if the gun wasnt available, other tools for suicide are readily available. Driving a car off a bridge (or just jumping). Just like homicide, when someone is willing, they will find a way.

[Adam White]

While the chart isn't wrong, there's more to consider than the headline.
According to wikipedia in the US per 100,000:
10.64 (as the chart indicates) is death by firearm

HOWEVER, what the chart doesn't tell you is 6.70 of those are Suicides. 0.16 is unintentional, 0.09 is undetermined on only 3.55 is homicide.

While 3.55 for homicide is too much (.01 is too much!) subtracting suicide drops the number to more than half, which would also be half of car deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

So in reality, firearm related death per 100,000 due to homicide is 3.55, not the 10+ you may perceive from the chart.

But you wouldn't argue that those deaths weren't caused by guns, right? Surely that's the issue. In a gun-free society, there wouldn't be any gun-related deaths (regardless of type).

I have a friend who blew his brains out. He might've done it another way had he not owned a gun (or a few guns). But to me, he's gone forever and he did it with a gun. I think it would've hurt just as bad if he'd have been shot by someone else.

I have found that even if the gun wasnt available, other tools for suicide are readily available. Driving a car off a bridge (or just jumping). Just like homicide, when someone is willing, they will find a way.

Yes - but guns make it easier and quicker. It can allow a person to act on impulse. If one has to plan or take many steps, he might change his mind or lose his nerve. That's no guarantee, of course.

But my friend's mother killed herself when he was in school with me. So I reckon there was a family history of depression. I guess it could be argued that yet another person was killed because a mentally ill person was able to own a gun.

[coredumped]

Adam, sorry for the loss of your friend.
I think what you said about the history of depression hits the nail on the head. We should really be talking about mental health. I'm inclined to agree with spuwho, you really can't stop someone from killing themselves. If someone who wants to do something surely will find a way to do it (pills, slitting wrist, etc). 

This is interesting fact I found on wikipedia (via usa today):

According to USA Today there is a suicide every 13 minutes in The United States of America. Stated in an article by USA Today there are far less homicides than suicides, in-fact homicide rates have fallen by half since 1991.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States



Suicide has pretty much stayed the same while gun violence has dropped.

[Adam White]

Adam, sorry for the loss of your friend.
I think what you said about the history of depression hits the nail on the head. We should really be talking about mental health. I'm inclined to agree with spuwho, you really can't stop someone from killing themselves. If someone who wants to do something surely will find a way to do it (pills, slitting wrist, etc). 

This is interesting fact I found on wikipedia (via usa today):

According to USA Today there is a suicide every 13 minutes in The United States of America. Stated in an article by USA Today there are far less homicides than suicides, in-fact homicide rates have fallen by half since 1991.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States



Suicide has pretty much stayed the same while gun violence has dropped.

Yes, I had heard that as well.

One thing that stuck with me, though, is that my friend had no outward signs of mental illness. It caught everyone by surprise. He obviously didn't feel he needed help - or didn't want to pursue it. There was nothing anyone could do, really. At least he was the only victim in this case (well, the only person killed).

[Tacachale]

Whatever side of the gun debate you're on, the suicide issue should be a big problem. Recent reports are finding that not only do suicides account for a wide majority of all gun deaths, but that firearm access itself is a risk factor for suicide:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

By this, they mean that suicidal people with gun access are more likely to both try and succeed at killing themselves. The argument that "if they're serious they'll find another way" sounds reasonable, but it isn't borne out. While its presumably true for a lot of people, the fact is that for many or most, suicide is an impulse decision. Removing an easy option for suicide reduces the chances they'll go through with it. Guns are the chief option - there are very, very many guns in this country and it's easy for people to get them, legally or illegally. Across the U.S. and the world, places with higher rates of gun ownership have higher rates of suicide.

Additionally, unlike many other methods, guns are by design very deadly. With other methods, some people can be saved - you can pump someone's stomache, cut down a noose, and put pressure on a cut vein. The same isn't the case with gunshots to the head. Self-inflicted gun shot wounds are fatal 85% of the time, for most other methods it's around 5%.

Incidentally, this isn't specific to guns. The same thing came to play out of CO2 ovens. In the 1950s in Britain, almost half of all suicides were people "sticking their heads in the oven" to kill themselves with poisonous coal gas. When the country shifted from coal gas to cleaner natural gas, the suicide rate dropped by a third, and never went back up. Cities that put suicide barriers on bridges have also seen their suicide numbers drop. Again, just removing the easy option saved a lot of people.

The upside, if you can call it that, is that this is a problem that people on both sides of the debate can work together on. So much of the problem isn't guns, it's over-easy access by vulnerable and ill people. Solutions, at least partial solutions, can be found that don't infringe on the rights of the majority of people who never misuse guns.

[JeffreyS]

Tacachale I think the proponents of less restrictions on guns know that the "if their serious they will find another way" argument has been debunked they think it just sounds good to say. 

Let's have guns let's just be "well regulated" about it as the constitution requires. So that safety improves.

[Jason]

What could we claim is the cause for the sharp decline in gun deaths in the 90's? 

[Tacachale]

What could we claim is the cause for the sharp decline in gun deaths in the 90's?

No one really knows. There are a lot of theories. However, there's been a sustained national decrease in crime across the board ever since, and it's likely the continuing decline of the drug wars brought on by the crack epidemic of the 80s has a lot to do with it. It also seems to be that fewer individuals are buying guns (gun sales are up, but it's mostly people who already have guns buying more of them), which is probably a factor.