Missouri Football players on strike

[TheCat]

Hour long discussion on Diane Rehm's show

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2015-11-10/university-of-missouri

[tufsu1]

A lot of that is not much different than the goings ons at other college campuses.  Some things were poorly handled by MU or the police, but not necessarily anything to do with racism, just stuff handled poorly.  And some of the racist/prejudice stuff has nothing to do with black people specifically, and some of it clearly doesn't stem just from "white privilege".  After reading Maneater, I'm actually more amazed that the events that happened did and more convinced than ever that as a society we have become egg shells.  Just pathetic.

The way the swastika incident (anti-semitism) was handled was pretty much the last straw for people.  I wonder though simms if you would feel the same way had the administration basically ignored LGBT issues and allowed homophobia to run rampant on campus? 

[wanderson91]

I can see why students would want the President gone. They're paying to be there and they have a right to challenge the administration and ask for resignations if the administration is not fostering an environment that is beneficial to all students. I understand that not everyone will be satisfied by all things, but the President of any university has to communicate with students regularly and be willing to address any issues that come up on their campus.

[simms3]

Maybe my own college was just as bad.  I just remember incidents happening fairly frequently to all people, of all backgrounds.  I was also in a fraternity.  I subjected my own self to fairly high levels of homophobia, and it was psychologically damaging, but I survived and frankly a lot of my fraternity brothers who were outwardly anti-homo at the time, in the house, are now some of my best friends and couldn't be more supportive.  18-22 year olds are still kids who are just awful, to each other, to themselves, and to strangers, regardless.

I agree the university president clearly mishandled things and wasn't striking a good chord with students.  But I still think these students have largely done themselves a disservice in the way they themselves also handled events.

If we can't handle hearing a bad name on a college campus every now and then (and clearly as on most campuses, these are now and then events), then we have become egg shells.  Things can always be better, but they are naturally progressing every year to be better.  Things will never be 100%.

And as shown in the events log, many things these students are complaining about are entitlement related, not race related.

[Adam White]

So you spent time to try to find a bunch of articles that attempt to disprove something I never said.  Oh, and your articles mention that the acceptance rate of legacies at schools including Stanford are 2-3x that of other applicants.  Doesn't actually go into legacy attendance at all, and says nothing that is a secret.  The fact of the matter is, duh, colleges and literally every other organization give some preferential treatment both to legacies and to people who might be able to donate more, and often they go hand in hand. 

VS

"Stanford is admission purely on smarts, not on background."

Maybe "pure" was a strong word but your articles only mentioned acceptance rate, not actual statistics on legacy acceptance.  So point still stands.

No, those articles made it clear that Stanford does accept legacies and has a history of doing it. Which runs counter to your claim that it doesn't happen at Stanford. Don't try moving the goalposts.

Avoid absolute statements and you won't paint yourself into a rhetorical corner.

[fsquid]

A lot of that is not much different than the goings ons at other college campuses.  Some things were poorly handled by MU or the police, but not necessarily anything to do with racism, just stuff handled poorly.  And some of the racist/prejudice stuff has nothing to do with black people specifically, and some of it clearly doesn't stem just from "white privilege".  After reading Maneater, I'm actually more amazed that the events that happened did and more convinced than ever that as a society we have become egg shells.  Just pathetic.

The way the swastika incident (anti-semitism) was handled was pretty much the last straw for people.  I wonder though simms if you would feel the same way had the administration basically ignored LGBT issues and allowed homophobia to run rampant on campus?

I'm more amazed that in this day of everything being documented on social media and cell phones that no one took a picture of said swastika. 

[simms3]

So you spent time to try to find a bunch of articles that attempt to disprove something I never said.  Oh, and your articles mention that the acceptance rate of legacies at schools including Stanford are 2-3x that of other applicants.  Doesn't actually go into legacy attendance at all, and says nothing that is a secret.  The fact of the matter is, duh, colleges and literally every other organization give some preferential treatment both to legacies and to people who might be able to donate more, and often they go hand in hand. 

VS

"Stanford is admission purely on smarts, not on background."

Maybe "pure" was a strong word but your articles only mentioned acceptance rate, not actual statistics on legacy acceptance.  So point still stands.

No, those articles made it clear that Stanford does accept legacies and has a history of doing it. Which runs counter to your claim that it doesn't happen at Stanford. Don't try moving the goalposts.

Avoid absolute statements and you won't paint yourself into a rhetorical corner.

uh, ok.  And the point still stands that if you want an elite university that isn't bogged down (perceptively to some, or many) in old-school tradition, finals clubs, and well known high percentages of legacies from established NE families, Stanford is a well known option.  But continue down this witch hunt of yours to try to discredit my point, a point that is fairly accepted that different colleges exist to offer up a plethora of varied student bodies, varied cultures, varied specialties, etc.  I think coming from an inner city, a poor (of any color), or minority background to Yale and expecting a whole bunch of things that may seem more familiar to you is like a wealthy elite white kid from Connecticut choosing to attend Florida A&M and expecting the familiar.  The opportunity for either student to attend either school is there.  Nobody should have to be forced to endure racism or discrimination and incidents should be reported and handled, but nobody should expect their lives to go on without such incidents happening, ever.

In the case of the Yale students, there is a whole background story with the finals club incident (with the girl) that you won't hear, and the well publicized halloween costume letter is just absurd.  The immature way in which these kids acted at that school is merely indicative of the broader storyline happening with Millennials in general and across college campuses, all of a sudden.

None of this behavior is excusable, and in fact, much of it in my opinion is laughable (and invoking a South Park parody such as a "safe space" is beyond words).  The young immature idiots who claim they want open dialogue are forcing a one way street of demands with closed dialogue.  Yes there are incidents of university presidents or faculty not addressing things in the best possible manner.  But the witch hunting, PC crap, and insane demands and actions by "bright young" minds barely different from those of teenage minds (in fact many still are teenagers) is pretty unfathomable.  The fact that grown adults are listening to the extent they are, or even aiding and abetting (that's how I'd call it) is even worse.

With that, I'm just done...Adam White, continue down the path of honing in on one statement and distracting the entire conversation away by using one statement said in gest to attempt to discredit an entire side of the argument.  That's always surprisingly effective, and I can tell you realize that.  It's also an immature way to hold a conversation or have a debate.

[Adam White]

So you spent time to try to find a bunch of articles that attempt to disprove something I never said.  Oh, and your articles mention that the acceptance rate of legacies at schools including Stanford are 2-3x that of other applicants.  Doesn't actually go into legacy attendance at all, and says nothing that is a secret.  The fact of the matter is, duh, colleges and literally every other organization give some preferential treatment both to legacies and to people who might be able to donate more, and often they go hand in hand. 

VS

"Stanford is admission purely on smarts, not on background."

Maybe "pure" was a strong word but your articles only mentioned acceptance rate, not actual statistics on legacy acceptance.  So point still stands.

No, those articles made it clear that Stanford does accept legacies and has a history of doing it. Which runs counter to your claim that it doesn't happen at Stanford. Don't try moving the goalposts.

Avoid absolute statements and you won't paint yourself into a rhetorical corner.

uh, ok.  And the point still stands that if you want an elite university that isn't bogged down (perceptively to some, or many) in old-school tradition, finals clubs, and well known high percentages of legacies from established NE families, Stanford is a well known option.  But continue down this witch hunt of yours to try to discredit my point, a point that is fairly accepted that different colleges exist to offer up a plethora of varied student bodies, varied cultures, varied specialties, etc.  I think coming from an inner city, a poor (of any color), or minority background to Yale and expecting a whole bunch of things that may seem more familiar to you is like a wealthy elite white kid from Connecticut choosing to attend Florida A&M and expecting the familiar.  The opportunity for either student to attend either school is there.  Nobody should have to be forced to endure racism or discrimination and incidents should be reported and handled, but nobody should expect their lives to go on without such incidents happening, ever.

In the case of the Yale students, there is a whole background story with the finals club incident (with the girl) that you won't hear, and the well publicized halloween costume letter is just absurd.  The immature way in which these kids acted at that school is merely indicative of the broader storyline happening with Millennials in general and across college campuses, all of a sudden.

None of this behavior is excusable, and in fact, much of it in my opinion is laughable (and invoking a South Park parody such as a "safe space" is beyond words).  The young immature idiots who claim they want open dialogue are forcing a one way street of demands with closed dialogue.  Yes there are incidents of university presidents or faculty not addressing things in the best possible manner.  But the witch hunting, PC crap, and insane demands and actions by "bright young" minds barely different from those of teenage minds (in fact many still are teenagers) is pretty unfathomable.  The fact that grown adults are listening to the extent they are, or even aiding and abetting (that's how I'd call it) is even worse.

With that, I'm just done...Adam White, continue down the path of honing in on one statement and distracting the entire conversation away by using one statement said in gest to attempt to discredit an entire side of the argument.  That's always surprisingly effective, and I can tell you realize that.  It's also an immature way to hold a conversation or have a debate.

Okay, fine Simms. Whatever. I didn't use that to try to discredit your entire argument - I was pointing out that you were dead wrong on something that you offered as 'evidence' of a particular point (though I suspect it was more an attempt - once again - to play the whole "San Francisco card" more than anything else). I also spent a decent amount of time pointing out that you weren't really a credible source for opinions on Ivy League university life and black experience.

I'll go cry myself to sleep and you enjoy your $90 haircuts and lunches with only the most educated, connected people in the world - things a dumb hayseed like me will never understand or get to experience.

[AKIRA]

Having gone to the most liberal type of college programs and then later to the most conservative (and alternatively the most liberal sort of job to arguibly the most conservative career), I would agree that universities tend to be more liberal, since their nature lends itself towards a belief that society can move towards a utopia (a staple belief of the left side).  It is interesting in seeing how the larger liberal population divide themselves into smaller, intense groups...

With that said, I think we are seeing the effect of social media on activism.  A person can find a society of people who believe exactly as he/she does via Facebook, etc.  When always surrounded by people of same mind, that horrible group dynamic takes over and the group moves toward its more extreme edge. 

Regardless of beliefs, people get worse when their numbers rise.

[civil42806]

A lot of that is not much different than the goings ons at other college campuses.  Some things were poorly handled by MU or the police, but not necessarily anything to do with racism, just stuff handled poorly.  And some of the racist/prejudice stuff has nothing to do with black people specifically, and some of it clearly doesn't stem just from "white privilege".  After reading Maneater, I'm actually more amazed that the events that happened did and more convinced than ever that as a society we have become egg shells.  Just pathetic.

The way the swastika incident (anti-semitism) was handled was pretty much the last straw for people.  I wonder though simms if you would feel the same way had the administration basically ignored LGBT issues and allowed homophobia to run rampant on campus?

I'm more amazed that in this day of everything being documented on social media and cell phones that no one took a picture of said swastika. 

That struck me as very odd also, my favorite was the Student body president tweeting the KLAN was on campus, then other tweets about the KLAN attacking a building throwing bricks through the window THEN!!!!! wait for it wait for it.  "Never Mind"  none of it happened.  Make you wonder what else didn't happen.

[mbwright]

I'm sure the student's goal is to solve all of the social ills, and inequality.  MLK got the ball rolling many years ago.  I'm sure their tirade is all that is needed to make everything equal and safe all across America, in every school, neighborhood, job, town, etc.   

[finehoe]

The Mizzou president said he had made attempts to open dialog with anyone willing to discuss the issues, right up into his resignation speech.

But for other reasons, he had little or no support from the University System Board.  There were some other issues going on here besides a football team making threat strikes.

Interesting editorial from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch after Wolfe was first hired:

Wanted: College president. No experience required
Monday, December 19, 2011 | 3:37 p.m. CST
BY ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

The obvious problem facing the UM System Board of Curators and Timothy M. Wolfe, its out-of-the-blue choice as the university system's new president, was this:

How do you explain the selection of a former software executive with no significant academic credentials as the leader of a four-campus university system?

Answer: You take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse.

On Wednesday, Wolfe visited the university's St. Louis campus and said he plans a two-month "journey of enlightenment" to bring himself up to speed on the needs of the various campuses.

This is great. Next time we're lost, we're going to tell our spouses that we're on journeys of enlightenment.

On Wednesday, curators praised Wolfe's Columbia roots (he grew up there and got a bachelor's degree from Mizzou) and said he understood academia because his parents were professors.

And then there was curator Pam Henrickson's explanation that Wolfe would bring "fresh eyes. Somebody to come in and say, 'Why do you do this?'"

This would not be a good way to hire someone to, say, fix your car. Whatever happened to straight talk?

http://digmo-01.missouri.edu/a/143910/what-others-say-wanted-college-president-no-experience-required/

[RattlerGator]

That struck me as very odd also, my favorite was the Student body president tweeting the KLAN was on campus, then other tweets about the KLAN attacking a building throwing bricks through the window THEN!!!!! wait for it wait for it.  "Never Mind"  none of it happened.  Make you wonder what else didn't happen.

The whole damn thing is an obvious hoax. Only the most gullible aren't coming to that realization. The poop swastika was quite likely placed there by the dorm guy who reported it and who, by the way, is now probably heavily involved with the so-called protest movement (which is bogus!). The damn hunger striker, who probably wasn't even on an actual hunger strike, is the son of a guy who earned multiple millions last year and has been on campus damn near 8 freaking years.

Mizzou has a black gay student body president -- okay? They clearly embraced Michael Sam last year when he came out as gay.

This "protest" has nothing to do with Mizzou. Nothing at all. This entire event has been ginned up because of Ferguson, Missouri and the failed "Hands up, Don't shoot" lie. They picked the University of Missouri because a national narrative on that state as racist had already been set.

It's an election year coming up, and some crazed-folks on the left desperately need some agitation to stir up the base to get them in the mood to vote. They've tried the War on Women, and that collapsed after the obviously bogus Rolling Stone article. They're gonna keep trying, apparently, until something sticks.

But this is obviously 100% bogus.

And Stephen, that was an incredibly feeble response to the crazy campus speech codes schools are implementing . . . and the crazy student groups shouting down speakers on campus and disallowing any debate on campus . . . and the unthinking acceptance of any complaint by coddled students. Jason Whitlock is no one's right winger or Republican. He is disgusted by the spectacle these folks have put on and so am I. It's a damn good read:

http://j.school/post/133025099640/crying-wolfe-exposes-real-problem

Enough, already. We have the same groups in Florida trying desperately to find something to agitate for -- keep your eyes on a group calling itself "Dream Defenders" -- they've been trying to cook up foolishness for a few years now. One day soon they'll likely succeed. And it may, may, be a legitimate cause. But it should first be greeted with HEALTHY skepticism. That hasn't happened at Missouri yet.

[I-10east]

I'm so over this fiasco. I'm definitely not one of these "Southeastern Conference snobs" but is it too late for the SEC to kick Mizzou out, and back to the Big 12?

[BridgeTroll]

Never in the Big Ten thank god...