90 Million more to be spent on Everbank Stadium?

[edjax]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

A portion of the bed tax is used for these items,  there is no designation that it "all" must be used for these items.  Secondly using the city's own criterion and web site that addresses "Capital Improvements" is not agenda pushing, it is sharing facts.  Attempting to dismiss facts as agenda pushing is a weak attack on valid information and the person providing it.  These are COJ facts and if those represent an agenda, that agenda is clearly that of the COJ.  Honestly Ed!  Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

Just because you say it does not mean it is accurate. Honestly Diane!!

[RattlerGator]

Cheshire Cat, not to be disrespectful but you do appear to be freaking out and you do keep bringing up points that absolutely no one is confused about. It may come as a surprise to you, given that you keep making these points, but City Council is where this thing is going to be vetted and City Council is where you -- like everyone else -- will have a chance to submit your objections to your council member and voice your considered opinion after reading up on what is proposed.

Imagine that; politics and political process. Please, save the lessons on who answers to us. We understand all of that. In fact, we're relying on it. You? Apparently not.

By now, everyone should realize the title of this thread is entirely wrong. That $90 million is being spent on the Sports Complex Entertainment District. And that so-called "indoor practice facility" is going to be much, much more than that. The one being built in Dallas may far exceed what we will have here (maybe not) but *it* clearly envisions hosting various events, including high school football and soccer games, along with other sporting events, plus fine arts and entertainment activities. The Dallas facility will seat 12,000 people. I think it's a safe bet *all* of our discussion so far has been wildly off-base with respect to that space.

There's going to be A HELL OF A LOT MORE ACTIVITY year-round in downtown Jacksonville because of this one initiative. Not that some of you (apparently) give a damn about that.

[Cheshire Cat]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

A portion of the bed tax is used for these items,  there is no designation that it "all" must be used for these items.  Secondly using the city's own criterion and web site that addresses "Capital Improvements" is not agenda pushing, it is sharing facts.  Attempting to dismiss facts as agenda pushing is a weak attack on valid information and the person providing it.  These are COJ facts and if those represent an agenda, that agenda is clearly that of the COJ.  Honestly Ed!  Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

Just because you say it does not mean it is accurate. Honestly Diane!!

My statement are backed up with facts and links to the City's own criterion Ed.  Yes that information I am sharing is accurate.  If you think they city's own criterion is not factual, I don't know what to tell you.  lol

[Cheshire Cat]

Cheshire Cat, not to be disrespectful but you do appear to be freaking out and you do keep bringing up points that absolutely no one is confused about. It may come as a surprise to you, given that you keep making these points, but City Council is where this thing is going to be vetted and City Council is where you -- like everyone else -- will have a chance to submit your objections to your council member and voice your considered opinion after reading up on what is proposed.

Imagine that; politics and political process. Please, save the lessons on who answers to us. We understand all of that. In fact, we're relying on it. You? Apparently not.

By now, everyone should realize the title of this thread is entirely wrong. That $90 million is being spent on the Sports Complex Entertainment District. And that so-called "indoor practice facility" is going to be much, much more than that. The one being built in Dallas may far exceed what we will have here (maybe not) but *it* clearly envisions hosting various events, including high school football and soccer games, along with other sporting events, plus fine arts and entertainment activities. The Dallas facility will seat 12,000 people. I think it's a safe bet *all* of our discussion so far has been wildly off-base with respect to that space.

There's going to be A HELL OF A LOT MORE ACTIVITY year-round in downtown Jacksonville because of this one initiative. Not that some of you (apparently) give a damn about that.

Not much I can say to a person who does not know the difference between a spirited discussion and freaking out.  Your opinion still remains your opinion until you can back it up with solid facts.  I have not seen you do that yet.  Give me some solid facts and links to support your dramatic statements and then we can talk.  lol

[edjax]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Yea, I knew the answer. Just asked as I found it kind of odd that it was posted since it had really nothing to do with the issue.  Agenda pushing.

A portion of the bed tax is used for these items,  there is no designation that it "all" must be used for these items.  Secondly using the city's own criterion and web site that addresses "Capital Improvements" is not agenda pushing, it is sharing facts.  Attempting to dismiss facts as agenda pushing is a weak attack on valid information and the person providing it.  These are COJ facts and if those represent an agenda, that agenda is clearly that of the COJ.  Honestly Ed!  Here is what you and others are missing when it comes to what the city can do which is this, they can choose to interpret the uses of the funds in a much more broad fashion than anyone can imagine in order to suit a specific agenda.  That is a fact and it happens all the time with legislation and deal making.  Wake up kids.

Just because you say it does not mean it is accurate. Honestly Diane!!

My statement are backed up with facts and links to the City's own criterion Ed.  Yes that information I am sharing is accurate.  If you think they city's own criterion is not factual, I don't know what to tell you.  lol

Where in the link you provided does it state that bed taxes can be used for the Capital Improvements?  My understanding is that Toursit Develpment taxes are set up following g state statutes. I believe the local Ordinance is 764 which outlines what the Convention Developmemt Taxes (bed taxes) can be used for, which are in compliance with state statute.

[Cheshire Cat]

Ed, the city has historically exchanged the use of Capital funding money for projects that should have been at least partially funded by the bed tax.  In 2013 it was proposed by Richard Clark that the city consider the scoreboards a Capital Improvement project.  Also in 2013 the city authorized a payment back to the Jaguars for expenditures of over two million they had made to enhance the stadium without city approval.  This went toward the locker room and amenities for the players and that did not impact the experience of the fans or the safety of the structure.  Funding that is meant to maintain the city owned sports facilities was used in this instance,  and continues to be funneled off for other uses than maintenance, as has the money for tourist promotion.  The Bed tax is broken down into three pots of money and those pots of funding have been interchanged at will over the years.  The city has used Capital funds over the years to broker deals that should have included bed tax money.  My point is that funding can and is used to cross purposes when it comes to Bed taxes and Capital Improvements.  So the question then becomes why if the city will consider using Capital funds for projects that should be funded by bed taxes, why can't we also revisit how bed tax funding is used/abused?  Is anyone aware of how many repairs have been made in the stadium.  In the last few years money has been taken from general funds to do what the bed tax is supposed to do for maintenance and repairs.  That is the question for legislators at the local and state level.  For instance, how is it that Capital Improvement funds are used for projects that should be partially funded by the bed tax but bed tax funding is not used for Capital Improvements.  It's a legal word game that is open to creative interpretation.  Our Stadium is owned by the citizens of Jacksonville and it was not built using only bed taxes, but rather a combination of funding which included Capital improvement monies.  Consider as well that the bed tax brings in approx 4.7 to 5 million a year.  How does that fund a scoreboard worth tens of millions and and new project costing $45 million?  Creative financing?

[edjax]

Ed, the city has historically exchanged the use of Capital funding money for projects that should have been at least partially funded by the bed tax.  In 2013 it was proposed by Richard Clark that the city consider the scoreboards a Capital Improvement project.  Also in 2013 the city authorized a payment back to the Jaguars for expenditures of over two million they had made to enhance the stadium without city approval.  This went toward the locker room and amenities for the players and did not impact the experience of the fans.  Funding that is meant to maintain the city owned sports facilities was used in this instance,  and continues to be funneled off for other uses than maintenance, as has the money for tourist promotion.  The Bed tax is broken down into three pots of money and those pots of funding have been interchanged at will over the years.  The city has used Capital funds over the years to broker deals that should have included bed tax money.  My point is that funding can and is used to cross purposes when it comes to Bed taxes and Capital Improvements.  So the question then becomes why if the city will consider using Capital funds for projects that should be funded by bed taxes, why can't we also revisit how bet tax funding is used/abused?  Is anyone aware of how many repairs have been made in the stadium.  In the last few years money has been taken from general funds to do what the bed tax is supposed to do for maintenance and repairs.  That is the question for legislators at the local and state level.  For instance, how is it that Capital Improvement funds are used for projects that should be partially funded by the bed tax but bed tax funding is not used for Capital Improvements.  It's a legal word game that is open to creative interpretation.  Our Stadium is owned by the citizens of Jacksonville and it was not built using only bed taxes, but rather a combination of funding which included Capital improvement monies.  Consider as well that the bed tax brings in approx 4.7 to 5 million a year.  How does that fund a scoreboard worth tens of millions and and new project costing $45 million?  Creative financing?

Thanks. So the web link you posted does not indicate bed taxes can be used for the Capital Improvement items you noted in your post. I understand you want them to, I get that point. Some taxes are set up to be used for specific items only while oers have more leeway.  If you don't like it. Head on over to Tally as it has to start there since there is a state law addressing this tax.  Knock yourself out.

[Cheshire Cat]

Also, and this is my view of what is happening based upon past city/private high profile deals.  The discussion of the Shipyard project has died out.  Why?  Likely because the city does not want to be saddled with the cost of toxic land clean up but my guess is that even Lenny Curry who is enamored of sports and Shad Khan figured out that the deal was a lousy one for taxpayers.  Khan would have had all the improvements to the land while also excluding his own structures and improvements by an exemption that would put all of the property taxes collected back into his own pocket.  My guess is that this new initiative is largely coming down the pike to keep Khan engaged and happy because the Shipyards deal is a no go. 

[tufsu1]

Come on, tufsu1 -- they aren't going to be slaves to this visual rendition. The finished product *is* going to deliver that.

I'm not sure how they deliver that and an indoor practice field in the space between the south end zone and Gator Bowl Boulevard.  Unless of course they plan to take some space from the parking lots, which means that lost revenue would need to be part of the equation.

And frankly, don't you think the plans should be pretty well done since legislation asking for $45 million in public funds has already been filed with City Council?

[Cheshire Cat]

Ed, the city has historically exchanged the use of Capital funding money for projects that should have been at least partially funded by the bed tax.  In 2013 it was proposed by Richard Clark that the city consider the scoreboards a Capital Improvement project.  Also in 2013 the city authorized a payment back to the Jaguars for expenditures of over two million they had made to enhance the stadium without city approval.  This went toward the locker room and amenities for the players and did not impact the experience of the fans.  Funding that is meant to maintain the city owned sports facilities was used in this instance,  and continues to be funneled off for other uses than maintenance, as has the money for tourist promotion.  The Bed tax is broken down into three pots of money and those pots of funding have been interchanged at will over the years.  The city has used Capital funds over the years to broker deals that should have included bed tax money.  My point is that funding can and is used to cross purposes when it comes to Bed taxes and Capital Improvements.  So the question then becomes why if the city will consider using Capital funds for projects that should be funded by bed taxes, why can't we also revisit how bet tax funding is used/abused?  Is anyone aware of how many repairs have been made in the stadium.  In the last few years money has been taken from general funds to do what the bed tax is supposed to do for maintenance and repairs.  That is the question for legislators at the local and state level.  For instance, how is it that Capital Improvement funds are used for projects that should be partially funded by the bed tax but bed tax funding is not used for Capital Improvements.  It's a legal word game that is open to creative interpretation.  Our Stadium is owned by the citizens of Jacksonville and it was not built using only bed taxes, but rather a combination of funding which included Capital improvement monies.  Consider as well that the bed tax brings in approx 4.7 to 5 million a year.  How does that fund a scoreboard worth tens of millions and and new project costing $45 million?  Creative financing?

Thanks. So the web link you posted does not indicate bed taxes can be used for the Capital Improvement items you noted in your post. I understand you want them to, I get that point. Some taxes are set up to be used for specific items only while oers have more leeway.  If you don't like it. Head on over to Tally as it has to start there since there is a state law addressing this tax.  Knock yourself out.

If you know me at all you will also know that I have taken on many serious issues head on with politicians locally and at the state level. Decades worth of first hand effort.  Right now my purpose it to get people thinking about how massive amounts of money are used and sometimes abused right here in Jacksonville.  This is not a fight I am going to take on first hand.  This is rather about getting people to think about our financial priorities and engaged in the way this city operates.  After all the city is supposed to represent us all, not dictate to us what must be done.

[RattlerGator]

Not much I can say to a person who does not know the difference between a spirited discussion and freaking out.  Your opinion still remains your opinion until you can back it up with solid facts.  I have not seen you do that yet.  Give me some solid facts and links to support your dramatic statements and then we can talk.  lol

So, this is the tactic? Really? Seriously? Give *you* some solid facts? That's truly rich coming from the woman railing about a plan she knows little to nothing of but is comfortable presuming nefarious intentions by the city and the owner of the Jaguars.

Spirited discussion, my azz.

Since you're in full school marm mode, this is some backatcha. How about you cool out and learn a little bit first? How about you meet the proposers, and their proposal, halfway -- in other words, keep an open mind. That's what an educated citizenry does. I'm sure you're familiar with that concept even though you're working pretty hard not to do so. Your mind seems shut and you seem quite impressed with your ability to state opinions as facts, and then skip on down the road as if all of that bluster has settled the matter.

Sorry to break this to you, but it hasn't. You aren't doing any educating here. LOL as much as you want; hopefully it floats your boat. But I'm waiting to see what the details are, and (until proven otherwise) confident that the interests of the city have been protected.

[Cheshire Cat]

I will leave the last words with you RattlerGator after this short post.  I have said all that is worth saying on the topic for my part.  Your views are your views and I am okay with that reality.    Carry on as you please. 

[edjax]

Sounds like if the bed taxes are used as proposed it may be approved.  See comments from Boyer,Crescembeni and Anderson they would be on board.  Saw in paper this morning Hazouri was sounding like a vote too as alluded it is the type of public/private investment needed.

[thelakelander]

I've been out of town for most of my time this week, so I haven't had a chance to closely follow the debate with Khan. However, I will say that it's becoming clearly evident that Khan marches to the beat of a different drum than most traditionally associated with DT Jax development. Some of the uses being proposed and the type of architecture representing them are clearly things that Jax has long lacked.

Also, this stuff changes the entire concept of what the Sports District can be. Assuming this particular project becomes reality, what's the point of Metropolitan Park? Can it be something else? If so, what? His old concept for the Shipyard also changes, since there would be no need for a waterfront indoor practice facility. Last, as the Sports District starts densifying with a mix of an around-the-clock uses/events, how does mobility (Skyway, Hogans Creek Greenway, Hart Bridge ramps, etc.) play into this?

Lots of big questions to consider for little ole Jax.

[Steve]

I've been out of town for most of my time this week, so I haven't had a chance to closely follow the debate with Khan. However, I will say that it's becoming clearly evident that Khan marches to the beat of a different drum than most traditionally associated with DT Jax development. Some of the uses being proposed and the type of architecture representing them are clearly things that Jax has long lacked.

Also, this stuff changes the entire concept of what the Sports District can be. Assuming this particular project becomes reality, what's the point of Metropolitan Park? Can it be something else? If so, what? His old concept for the Shipyard also changes, since there would be no need for a waterfront indoor practice facility. Last, as the Sports District starts densifying with a mix of an around-the-clock uses/events, how does mobility (Skyway, Hogans Creek Greenway, Hart Bridge ramps, etc.) play into this?

Lots of big questions to consider for little ole Jax.

Amen. This is a concept I hadn't thought of; doing an amphitheater in the grass area south of the stadium. They tried selling the tailgate cabanas, but they were an awful deal and few bought them.

Maybe I'm just not fiscally responsible, but I think this is a good thing. Khan's proven once that he can deliver a project in a tight timeline (north end zone/scoreboards), so I'll trust him with another.