How millenials and baby boomers will impact Jacksonville's real estate market

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

[TimmyB]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

All the cool towns we've visited have had one thing in common: they all have some type of linear park/path that allows walkers, runners, cyclists, etc., access to the best parts of the city.  Columbus, Austin, Chattanooga, and many others have it.  Atlanta is getting theirs, with their Beltline project, plus they have the USA's best rail trail with the Silver Comet.  Heck, even a rebuilding-from-the-dead Detroit is getting theirs!  Jacksonville desperately needs to leverage their amazing riverfront and tie into those cool neighborhoods that you mentioned, plus all points east (i.e., The Beaches).  I know I won't see it in my lifetime, but it would be cool to see someone with the vision actually get it started.

[iMarvin]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

All the cool towns we've visited have had one thing in common: they all have some type of linear park/path that allows walkers, runners, cyclists, etc., access to the best parts of the city.  Columbus, Austin, Chattanooga, and many others have it.  Atlanta is getting theirs, with their Beltline project, plus they have the USA's best rail trail with the Silver Comet.  Heck, even a rebuilding-from-the-dead Detroit is getting theirs!  Jacksonville desperately needs to leverage their amazing riverfront and tie into those cool neighborhoods that you mentioned, plus all points east (i.e., The Beaches).  I know I won't see it in my lifetime, but it would be cool to see someone with the vision actually get it started.

The Riverwalk?

[TimmyB]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

All the cool towns we've visited have had one thing in common: they all have some type of linear park/path that allows walkers, runners, cyclists, etc., access to the best parts of the city.  Columbus, Austin, Chattanooga, and many others have it.  Atlanta is getting theirs, with their Beltline project, plus they have the USA's best rail trail with the Silver Comet.  Heck, even a rebuilding-from-the-dead Detroit is getting theirs!  Jacksonville desperately needs to leverage their amazing riverfront and tie into those cool neighborhoods that you mentioned, plus all points east (i.e., The Beaches).  I know I won't see it in my lifetime, but it would be cool to see someone with the vision actually get it started.

The Riverwalk?

Which goes how far?  I'm talking miles and miles of safe, scenic pathway, not a hodgepodge of hit-and-miss, or a few hundred yards downtown.  And, if this already exists, it sure isn't marked or marketed very well, as we've never seen a thing about it!

[jcjohnpaint]

I'm in downtown Pittsburgh for the next few days.  This town is exploding since we lived here 5 years ago.  I think Jacksonville is going to be the only city of its size left in the dust.  And yeah, nobody to blame, but Jacksonville.  It's going to be hard to come back. 

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

All the cool towns we've visited have had one thing in common: they all have some type of linear park/path that allows walkers, runners, cyclists, etc., access to the best parts of the city.  Columbus, Austin, Chattanooga, and many others have it.  Atlanta is getting theirs, with their Beltline project, plus they have the USA's best rail trail with the Silver Comet.  Heck, even a rebuilding-from-the-dead Detroit is getting theirs!  Jacksonville desperately needs to leverage their amazing riverfront and tie into those cool neighborhoods that you mentioned, plus all points east (i.e., The Beaches).  I know I won't see it in my lifetime, but it would be cool to see someone with the vision actually get it started.

The Riverwalk?

Which goes how far?  I'm talking miles and miles of safe, scenic pathway, not a hodgepodge of hit-and-miss, or a few hundred yards downtown.  And, if this already exists, it sure isn't marked or marketed very well, as we've never seen a thing about it!

No offense, but there are bigger issues. At the same time, does this work for you? - http://www.traillink.com/trail/jacksonville-baldwin-rail-trail.aspx

[TimmyB]

I spent five years in Tallahassee. I always thought it lacked the urban vibrancy of compact college towns like Madison, Athens, Ann Arbor, etc. Gainesville felt worse. In Tally, football season was pretty cool (in terms of college nightlife) but the summers sucked and downtown was never really vibrant. To be honest, I was ready to leave and left right after my graduation ceremony. This was in the early 2000s, so things may have changed now. On the other hand, DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become, during a period when other places around the country were rapidly turning things around.

From my experience, most of the successful places tend to leverage their natural assets, historic neighborhoods, etc. These are common traits that are applicable to all cities of various shapes, cultures, economic conditions and sizes. Universities, state capitols, county seats, military, local business community, non-profit foundations, sugar daddies, etc. are simply tools to facilitate the leveraging. Depending on the community, a varying set of tools may be available to them.

Most of the change in Gainesville or Tallahassee has been recent. Midtown was always vibrant in Gainesville but the downtown turned the corner about a decade ago.

It is funny, but Riverside and San Marco are cool neighborhoods and getting cooler. The key piece is our downtown and just making it something that Jaxson's are not ashamed of - which is the usual response. We have a beautiful river, we need connectivity with the neighborhoods, but we need to build up Laura St. and Bay St. with restaurants and nightlife. I really believe with the amenities in the current day and age, people will want to live on the river and developers will see that soon enough.

All the cool towns we've visited have had one thing in common: they all have some type of linear park/path that allows walkers, runners, cyclists, etc., access to the best parts of the city.  Columbus, Austin, Chattanooga, and many others have it.  Atlanta is getting theirs, with their Beltline project, plus they have the USA's best rail trail with the Silver Comet.  Heck, even a rebuilding-from-the-dead Detroit is getting theirs!  Jacksonville desperately needs to leverage their amazing riverfront and tie into those cool neighborhoods that you mentioned, plus all points east (i.e., The Beaches).  I know I won't see it in my lifetime, but it would be cool to see someone with the vision actually get it started.

The Riverwalk?

Which goes how far?  I'm talking miles and miles of safe, scenic pathway, not a hodgepodge of hit-and-miss, or a few hundred yards downtown.  And, if this already exists, it sure isn't marked or marketed very well, as we've never seen a thing about it!

No offense, but there are bigger issues. At the same time, does this work for you? - http://www.traillink.com/trail/jacksonville-baldwin-rail-trail.aspx

There will ALWAYS be bigger issues than parks and recreation.  If we wait for this to be the issue, it will never be done. 

As for the Baldwin trail, yeah that's a nice start but it does nothing to those communities that I mentioned.  It doesn't connect with DT, any of the up-and-coming neighborhoods, and definitely not the eastern half of the community (Kernan, Hodges, Beaches, etc.)  This is a trail that you basically have to drive to, park your car, use the trail, then go back home.  You can't even get there from DT in a safe, orderly manner.  Those towns that are committed to this have created paths very much like this, but have also gone out of their ways to make sure the people can get SAFELY from the trail to the DT area, without making up their own paths and taking their lives into their hands.

[MorganL]

I do agree with your previous comments about parks and recreation up to a pint, however, I believe that it works the other way around - green spaces are more or less the consequence of increased economic activity and that is why the "cool cities" that you mentioned have them. According to theory, there is a U-shaped relationship between economic performance and the how much people care for the environment - if a society is rather underdeveloped, there are few issues with the environment, then as the society becomes more advanced, nature tends to suffer, only to become an integral part of the peoples' lives for very highly developed societies (the Scandinavian countries and Germany would be a good example for that). So in order to achieve these effects, we have to aim at attracting investors to our city. But of course, it will happen in time. Florida has some of the most improving housing markets in the country, largely a reflection of more borrowers becoming current on their mortgage payments as the local employment picture improves and house prices rebound. There are more and more apartments, houses and condos for sale in Pompano Beach , fort Lauderdale, Miami and all along the coast for that matter. If we haven't really felt the boom, I am convinced we will soon.

[mtraininjax]

DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become

Lake, I don't believe anyone wanted downtown to become a ghost town, its just that the people moved out to the suburbs. The economics of living downtown with little shopping, little night life, little to really do hits home when you see how Town Center has evolved. People have the shopping, events and parks that allow for living. People will come back when there are enough services to satisfy their demand and needs. Til then, lots of vacant buildings after 5.

I do hope that Brooklyn can spill into LaVilla and cause change there. I would like to see some of those empty spaces turned into recreational areas. There are no real parks downtown, except for 1 block in front of City Hall. A soccer field, baseball/softball, running track, tennis courts, a rec complex, there needs to be more offered to keep people wanting to be downtown. Its just not there now. Add more residents demanding these things, I think it will happen. The new YMCA will help, but there also needs to be more green spaces downtown.

[thelakelander]

Lake, I don't believe anyone wanted downtown to become a ghost town, its just that the people moved out to the suburbs. The economics of living downtown with little shopping, little night life, little to really do hits home when you see how Town Center has evolved. People have the shopping, events and parks that allow for living. People will come back when there are enough services to satisfy their demand and needs. Til then, lots of vacant buildings after 5.

Jax is no different from anywhere else, in regards to suburban growth after WWII. Downtown has been more negatively impacted by the decline in population of neighborhoods like LaVilla, Brooklyn, Springfield, Cathedral District, etc. and the relocation of industry than anything taking place at Town Center. It fell in the dumps long before Town Center came on the scene. I believe it will come back in some form. How far back depends on the direction we take towards investing in enhancing public space, mobility, accessibility, smart infill & redevelopment, etc.

[finehoe]

DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become

I don't believe anyone wanted downtown to become a ghost town, its just that the people moved out to the suburbs.

Like Lake said, this happened in virtually every city in the country.  The difference is that in the last twenty years or so, it has reversed in many places and downtown living has become desirable again.  Jacksonville has missed the boat on this movement, and it is almost entirely due to the decisions made by local leaders...both government and industry.

[CCMjax]

DT Jax was once vibrant (big city vibrant) and we have no one else to blame but ourselves for what it has become

I don't believe anyone wanted downtown to become a ghost town, its just that the people moved out to the suburbs.

Like Lake said, this happened in virtually every city in the country.  The difference is that in the last twenty years or so, it has reversed in many places and downtown living has become desirable again.  Jacksonville has missed the boat on this movement, and it is almost entirely due to the decisions made by local leaders...both government and industry.

Agreed.  The 30 to 50 year old model of development is still in place in Jacksonville, as well as most non-progressive cities across the country, where the answer is build lots of roads with lots of lanes and lots of parking lots for lots of cars and segregate residential from commercial so that there is no walkable connectivity.  I have a feeling it is mostly due to bad zoning or lack there of from conversations I've heard/read.  Those who know more than I do about Jax keep saying there needs to be a zoning overhaul and I'm really starting to buy into that the longer I live here.  This development model that was so popular in the 70's, 80's and 90's is something that more progressive cities (that I've lived in and visited) seemed to have figured out wasn't such a good model to continue with a decade or two ago.  And a city can take progressive steps development-wise and still keep its traditional southern identity which I think is important for Jax, you don't have to become a Seattle or San Fran.  See Greenville, SC or Birmingham, AL to a degree.  I'm sure there are plenty of other examples too but I think Greenville has a good mix of development styles and obviously leaders who understand how important that is to creating a high quality of life.

[simms3]

I've heard nothing but amazing things about Columbus.  Just went on a date with someone from Columbus a couple days ago in fact, and one of my roommates from my Atlanta days ended up moving there to teach at OSU, and loves it.  Flies under the radar, perhaps, perhaps moreso for people > 33-35 years old, but it's "known" as a cool place with a good gay scene too for those in their 20s.  I've heard fewer but some good things about Indianapolis, too (which also has Bloomington right there/IU).  Apparently everywhere else in OH is literally the pits, no matter how much Cleveland or Cincy are talked about as being revitalized and hip (I've been told they are in fact not).

I was going to post the first comment earlier in the Urban Construction thread (was just going to say "Ugh, depressing.") and decided that I would be railed against for being a negative nancy, all talk no action (which is all true), but it is depressing, and the comments on this thread are all no better.

Jax leaders have nobody to blame but themselves.  And perhaps our newest/freshest/youngest in both the public and private sector are on the same/right page and have to clean up others' major major mess, but generally, leadership in Jax, even today, seems to be sorely lacking.

[mtraininjax]

At the RAP Town Hall Meeting, it was discussed if we could enact some of the ideas some recent new RAP members experienced when they lived in Portland, OR, where streets were shut down for pedestrians, bikes and families on Sundays. A new way for community to grow with neighbors. Everyone loved the idea and the person(s) who recommended it were nominated to run with it and gain community support, which should not be hard. Who would not love to shut down their streets on Sundays for a couple of hours and just walk, talk and watch families in the streets?

[thelakelander]

^Interesting. What else was discussed?