Where has RAM gone?

[thelakelander]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

Yes and no. As RAM learned, when you allow vendors to do resale of other "farmers'" products, it's basically impossible to tell where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's from local farms, or farms somewhere else, but you really can't know. That's a lot of the vendors at the Jacksonville market. That said, a lot of the vendors there are real farmers, though they generally come from a lot farther out than northern Florida. The purists cringe, but it means a market that's open every day and keeps its prices low, so there's that.

From my understanding, farmers typically drop off/sale their products to vendors early in the morning.

[Tacachale]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

Yes and no. As RAM learned, when you allow vendors to do resale of other "farmers'" products, it's basically impossible to tell where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's from local farms, or farms somewhere else, but you really can't know. That's a lot of the vendors at the Jacksonville market. That said, a lot of the vendors there are real farmers, though they generally come from a lot farther out than northern Florida. The purists cringe, but it means a market that's open every day and keeps its prices low, so there's that.

From my understanding, farmers typically drop off/sale their products to vendors early in the morning.

I'm sure Katie can answer that better than me, but again, the issue with resale is that the stuff can come from anywhere. You could always ask the vendors. But Jax Farmer's Market doesn't claim to be a local market. RAM's issue was that customers were assuming everything was "local" - and the vendors encouraged that notion - even in cases where it wasn't, or at least wasn't clear. With the new regulations as of this year, they can be sure, though it means a lot less produce, especially now in August. It sucks for now, but ultimately it should make a better, truly local market.

[Jaxter]

As time has gone on, RAM has become passe and dated - always the same old thing.  Not sure how things run now but the first couple RAM Directors had little power to do what was needed, and no support from RAP's Board.  RAM was pretty much always under the control of Wayne Wood, and therefore subject to his private fantasies of what it should and shouldn't be. That's why the performers are always the same, and the events lacking.
RAM was meant, first and foremost, to be a source of income for RAP, with little regard for the artists, vendors or the community. It was supposed to be all hand-made items, which IS a nice change from the flea market idea, But... the question should be, what does Jacksonville want and need?
Now that Mr. Wood is handling Hemming, and still pushing to extend RAM to the park, you can expect more of the same since no one seems willing to stand up to him and stop his personal agenda from deciding what's best for Jacksonville. RAP couldn't work with him, but they can't completely stay away from him, either, since he's the founder. The city doesn't seem to care one way or the other, they just keep giving him projects to keep him off their back. Why doesn't the city start renting out that space on Saturdays to paying entities that keep things lively and diverse? Why keep donating the space to RAM, especially now that the thrill is gone? Or, did the city sign away the rights to only allow RAM to use the space on Saturdays? Anyone know?

[Andy]

It's true that it hasn't changed much at all, but I don't have a problem with what it is. Yeah it's a lot of food truck foods, tchotchke's and questionable art, but there's a place for that sort of thing in a city like Jacksonville. I don't have examples, but I would wager that many major US cities have some sort of art/food/farmers market that has this sort of thing. A place where current folk-art is being peddled. Just because I'm not into it doesn't mean there isn't anybody who IS into it. I was there last week and it was reasonably busy at 3pm. Not bad.

I don't think the spot would be greatly improved by bringing in a 7-11 or something.

[Kay]

I don't know who you are or where you got your information.  I was RAP's board chair when RAM was launched.  It wasn't designed to be first and foremost additional income for RAP; we hoped it also would generate income but money was not the primary motivator.  Wayne Wood hasn't been involved with RAM for a few years.  And RAM would not exist if the RAP board had not supported the concept as well as its ongoing operation.

As time has gone on, RAM has become passe and dated - always the same old thing.  Not sure how things run now but the first couple RAM Directors had little power to do what was needed, and no support from RAP's Board.  RAM was pretty much always under the control of Wayne Wood, and therefore subject to his private fantasies of what it should and shouldn't be. That's why the performers are always the same, and the events lacking.
RAM was meant, first and foremost, to be a source of income for RAP, with little regard for the artists, vendors or the community. It was supposed to be all hand-made items, which IS a nice change from the flea market idea, But... the question should be, what does Jacksonville want and need?
Now that Mr. Wood is handling Hemming, and still pushing to extend RAM to the park, you can expect more of the same since no one seems willing to stand up to him and stop his personal agenda from deciding what's best for Jacksonville. RAP couldn't work with him, but they can't completely stay away from him, either, since he's the founder. The city doesn't seem to care one way or the other, they just keep giving him projects to keep him off their back. Why doesn't the city start renting out that space on Saturdays to paying entities that keep things lively and diverse? Why keep donating the space to RAM, especially now that the thrill is gone? Or, did the city sign away the rights to only allow RAM to use the space on Saturdays? Anyone know?

[BennyKrik]

That's right - Dr. Wood was pushed out several years ago and was involved in RAM only as a volunteer in recent years.

But hold your sympathy for Dr. Wood. He commanded CEO Vince to fire Keith Marks from Friends of Hemming Park, because Dr. Wood's
'fantasies' did not align with Keith's progressive outreach and marketing ideas.

...and someone here said Keith was let go due to financial restructuring = nonsense.

[Bativac]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

It definitely comes from some farms, someplace. But even a cursory glance at much of the produce being sold will show that it arrives pre packed by Dole or Del Monte, or has stickers bearing the state or country of origin.

There are some more local farms selling things there, but much of the produce is the same stuff you can get at Publix without paying for their overhead.

[fieldafm]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

Yes and no. As RAM learned, when you allow vendors to do resale of other "farmers'" products, it's basically impossible to tell where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's from local farms, or farms somewhere else, but you really can't know. That's a lot of the vendors at the Jacksonville market. That said, a lot of the vendors there are real farmers, though they generally come from a lot farther out than northern Florida. The purists cringe, but it means a market that's open every day and keeps its prices low, so there's that.

From my understanding, farmers typically drop off/sale their products to vendors early in the morning.

You get a mix of farmers and wholesalers doing business early in the morning. Most of the stall vendors are reselling products they buy from the wholesalers. Produce from Beaver Street definately comes from sources all over the country and even overseas in some cases. That's not a negative (we certainly shop there often), but it's not a true local market... which is what RAM is now striving to be.

The good thing is, whether truly buying local/seasonal is importatnt to you or not... there are many great options on a Saturday to buy produce that fits your needs (RAM, Jacksonville Farmers Market, Grassroots, Native Sun, Beaches Green Market, national chains, etc). Each serves their own niche.

[downtownbrown]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

Yes and no. As RAM learned, when you allow vendors to do resale of other "farmers'" products, it's basically impossible to tell where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's from local farms, or farms somewhere else, but you really can't know. That's a lot of the vendors at the Jacksonville market. That said, a lot of the vendors there are real farmers, though they generally come from a lot farther out than northern Florida. The purists cringe, but it means a market that's open every day and keeps its prices low, so there's that.

From my understanding, farmers typically drop off/sale their products to vendors early in the morning.

I'm sure Katie can answer that better than me, but again, the issue with resale is that the stuff can come from anywhere. You could always ask the vendors. But Jax Farmer's Market doesn't claim to be a local market. RAM's issue was that customers were assuming everything was "local" - and the vendors encouraged that notion - even in cases where it wasn't, or at least wasn't clear. With the new regulations as of this year, they can be sure, though it means a lot less produce, especially now in August. It sucks for now, but ultimately it should make a better, truly local market.

Why does it matter whether the produce is direct or is being resold? The market is based on willing buyers and sellers. 

[Tacachale]

Wife and I go every couple months just to have something to do, if the weather is nice. All it ever is, is "listen to some live music in a cool setting and eat something." It is nice when the farmer's market it set up because it's from an actual farm and not like the Beaver St "farmers market" which is just grocery store produce sold on the cheap (not that this is a BAD thing).

Is this actually accurate? From my knowledge, this isn't the impression I get. A significant portion of the produce coming in to the Jacksonville farmers market does come from farms.

Yes and no. As RAM learned, when you allow vendors to do resale of other "farmers'" products, it's basically impossible to tell where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's from local farms, or farms somewhere else, but you really can't know. That's a lot of the vendors at the Jacksonville market. That said, a lot of the vendors there are real farmers, though they generally come from a lot farther out than northern Florida. The purists cringe, but it means a market that's open every day and keeps its prices low, so there's that.

From my understanding, farmers typically drop off/sale their products to vendors early in the morning.

I'm sure Katie can answer that better than me, but again, the issue with resale is that the stuff can come from anywhere. You could always ask the vendors. But Jax Farmer's Market doesn't claim to be a local market. RAM's issue was that customers were assuming everything was "local" - and the vendors encouraged that notion - even in cases where it wasn't, or at least wasn't clear. With the new regulations as of this year, they can be sure, though it means a lot less produce, especially now in August. It sucks for now, but ultimately it should make a better, truly local market.

Why does it matter whether the produce is direct or is being resold? The market is based on willing buyers and sellers.

RAM wants to be able to vouch that the food is really grown locally, and there's just no way to do that when vendors are reselling from others. The food could be (and sometimes was) coming from anywhere, which is a problem considering that customers assumed it was local (often based on what vendors were telling them). The feeling is that people expecting - and paying for - local farm goods should get them. As others have said, there are other markets that allow resale as well as non-local produce, so we're not lacking in options.

[BennyKrik]

Ok Rachel,

I may just have to agree with you

[exnewsman]

Getting back to my original comment and question - there was a lot of empty spaces at RAM that I had not seen in my many previous visits and not sure why that was. It wasn't raining for a change. Although I don't really care for most of the "arts/crafts" feel of most of the wares at the booths, it was just so noticeable that RAM (at least on this weekend) was not what it once was.

As for produce - all I wanted was to buy a couple decent looking tomatoes and a few other items like I used to do as a cost lower than Publix/Whole Foods/Fresh Market.

Food vendors - choices far fewer than in many previous visits.

So what can we expect next week, month, year? Anybody really know?