Skyway to Greenway?

[Chaz1969]

So I had this thought the other night about the skyway...(I'm doubting I'm the first to think of this so please let me know if this has been proposed before)

What about modifying the skyway to make it a pedestrian/bicycle only path a la the High Line in NYC?  Imagine a series of unobstructed bike paths throughout the city.  I think it would most certainly get used and give a mark of distinction. 

[thelakelander]

It's been mentioned before. It's a bit of a different animal than the High Line, which makes it pretty impractical. Nevertheless, there's mass transit value in the skyway's elevated infrastructure. The technology just needs to be upgraded.

[tpot]

Already in the works for Miami......it's called The Underline.....

http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2015/07/09/underline-plans-renderings-before-after-revealed.php

[Ocklawaha]

At the ground level this would be pretty awesome... 'The Hanging Gardens of Hogan Street' etc. The upper level is way too narrow to create a safe passage for pedestrians or bikes. The designer of the Skyway told me it was engineered to hold streetcar/light-rail which is probably the way it should go if we do any changes at all.

[peestandingup]

Most of our bike infrastructure is already in place in the form of sidewalks. It would be way cheaper, and more practical IMO given the nature of how bikes aren't cars or anything like them (even if some cyclists like to pretend), to extend sidewalks to accommodate bike lanes. It would give safe passage for the majority of cyclists, kids, etc, and those who wish to ride on the roads & take their chances there could still do so.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Sidewalk_with_bike_path.JPG

[thelakelander]

Already in the works for Miami......it's called The Underline.....

http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2015/07/09/underline-plans-renderings-before-after-revealed.php

Much of this stretch already has a plain jane shared use path under it. Nice to see there are plans to take that space to the next level.

[Adam White]

Most of our bike infrastructure is already in place in the form of sidewalks. It would be way cheaper, and more practical IMO given the nature of how bikes aren't cars or anything like them (even if some cyclists like to pretend), to extend sidewalks to accommodate bike lanes. It would give safe passage for the majority of cyclists, kids, etc, and those who wish to ride on the roads & take their chances there could still do so.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Sidewalk_with_bike_path.JPG

Those are an interesting option and can be quite effective. But in my experience, they tend to be quite impractical for any kind of heavy use/commuting. I don't see that as an issue in Jacksonville and they are likely to be fine given the amount of traffic (foot or bike) that can reasonably be expected.

[finehoe]

Already in the works for Miami......it's called The Underline.....

http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2015/07/09/underline-plans-renderings-before-after-revealed.php

Love this, but to say it's "in the works" is a stretch.

[thelakelander]

Most of our bike infrastructure is already in place in the form of sidewalks. It would be way cheaper, and more practical IMO given the nature of how bikes aren't cars or anything like them (even if some cyclists like to pretend), to extend sidewalks to accommodate bike lanes. It would give safe passage for the majority of cyclists, kids, etc, and those who wish to ride on the roads & take their chances there could still do so.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Sidewalk_with_bike_path.JPG

Those are an interesting option and can be quite effective. But in my experience, they tend to be quite impractical for any kind of heavy use/commuting. I don't see that as an issue in Jacksonville and they are likely to be fine given the amount of traffic (foot or bike) that can reasonably be expected.

In the urban core, it's as simple as taking a lane or two off selected streets and restriping them as cycle tracks. Most of the streets aren't FDOT's, so it should not be too difficult to develop a decent connected network utilizing local streets. You can find decent examples in both big and small cities. Jax just needs to do it and get it over with.

[Adam White]

Most of our bike infrastructure is already in place in the form of sidewalks. It would be way cheaper, and more practical IMO given the nature of how bikes aren't cars or anything like them (even if some cyclists like to pretend), to extend sidewalks to accommodate bike lanes. It would give safe passage for the majority of cyclists, kids, etc, and those who wish to ride on the roads & take their chances there could still do so.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Sidewalk_with_bike_path.JPG

Those are an interesting option and can be quite effective. But in my experience, they tend to be quite impractical for any kind of heavy use/commuting. I don't see that as an issue in Jacksonville and they are likely to be fine given the amount of traffic (foot or bike) that can reasonably be expected.

In the urban core, it's as simple as taking a lane or two off selected streets and restriping them as cycle tracks. Most of the streets aren't FDOT's, so it should not be too difficult to develop a decent connected network utilizing local streets. You can find decent examples in both big and small cities. Jax just needs to do it and get it over with.

Yeah - it's not that hard at all. You can also have bikes share bus lanes (if you have them). I prefer the idea of completely segregated cycle lanes, but those are hard to come by. I do think that actual bike lanes rather than so-called "sharrows" are the answer. You can use bike lanes (of the type you mention) mixed with things like the sidewalk bike lanes that PSU posted about (maybe for areas where the roads are too narrow or perhaps the traffic is a bit too scary).

[Chaz1969]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.  I understand the Skyway has among the highest ridership for JTA's routes, but I think the general consensus is that it's under-performing.  Really too bad the Tiger application wasn't approved to get that spur into Brooklyn.

[UNFurbanist]

Ya, I think that the most important things for skyway success are expansion into more happening parts of the urban core and updating the technology. On the other hand, though it may not be practical to turn this into a highline project I have heard that the cultural council might use some of their $500,000 to add public art to the skyway infrastructure. Not sure how accurate that rumor is but I could see that making for a very cool addition DT.

[ProjectMaximus]

On the other hand, though it may not be practical to turn this into a highline project I have heard that the cultural council might use some of their $500,000 to add public art to the skyway infrastructure. Not sure how accurate that rumor is but I could see that making for a very cool addition DT.

Yeah, that's the plan. Maybe not all $500k for that but over the next three years I think they'll be investing about $500k into the urban core.

http://www.culturalcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Spark-Grant-Guidelines-2016-21.pdf

Concurrent with the grant period for the 2016 SPARK Grant Program, Jacksonville's Art in Public Places Program (APP) will be implementing Phase One of three planned phases of permanent public art projects through the Community Redevelopment Plan (CRA) Urban Art Façade and Streetscape Program, which is funded through Jacksonville's Downtown Investment Authority (DIA). During Phase One, an investment of $180,000 will be made in Skyway columns, utility boxes, bike racks, street furnishings, and outdoor sculpture.
Phase One projects will be concentrated in an area of the SPARK District that encompasses the Skyway Central Station to the west, City Hall and Hemming Park to the north, the Times-Union Center for the Performing Arts to the south, and engages Hogan Street and Laura Street from west to east.

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

At the ground level this would be pretty awesome... 'The Hanging Gardens of Hogan Street' etc. The upper level is way too narrow to create a safe passage for pedestrians or bikes. The designer of the Skyway told me it was engineered to hold streetcar/light-rail which is probably the way it should go if we do any changes at all.

Question: Would there be a safe way to bring a light rail/street car system down to ground level? Just a gradual concrete ramp? Has that ever been seriously thought out? Could be interesting if you really did want to have a train head to Riverside or the stadium in the future.

[thelakelander]

It would be no different than the grade changes Charlotte's LRT makes (see below):







Similar to what the Skyway already does in Brooklyn (see below):