Nocatee Town Center: Northeast Florida's Next Downtown?

[Adam White]

If we only supported or funded things we personally benefitted from, nothing would ever get done.

[southsider1015]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

[southsider1015]

If we only supported or funded things we personally benefitted from, nothing would ever get done.

Disagree.  We probably disagree fundamentally on politics, too.  But that's fine for other thread.

[thelakelander]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

We're not talking about transit or widening a roadway for extra auto capacity. I don't ride bikes on a daily basis either but given our pedestrian and cycling death rates, I can at least see the need to invest in a dedicated pedestrian and bicycle network throughout town. Anyway, what type of ridership numbers do you believe are needed to justify providing pedestrian and bicycle facilities in the middle of a city Jacksonville's size?

[southsider1015]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

We're not talking about transit or widening a roadway for extra auto capacity. I don't ride bikes on a daily basis either but given our pedestrian and cycling death rates, I can at least see the need to invest in a dedicated pedestrian and bicycle network throughout town. Anyway, what type of ridership numbers do you believe are needed to justify providing pedestrian and bicycle facilities in the middle of a city Jacksonville's size?

Solid question.  I don't know?  50-100 bikes/peds per day?  What would be tragic is if it were 5 peds/bikes per day.

[Tacachale]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

We're not talking about transit or widening a roadway for extra auto capacity. I don't ride bikes on a daily basis either but given our pedestrian and cycling death rates, I can at least see the need to invest in a dedicated pedestrian and bicycle network throughout town. Anyway, what type of ridership numbers do you believe are needed to justify providing pedestrian and bicycle facilities in the middle of a city Jacksonville's size?

My thoughts as well. You don't have to use the infrastructure to understand that a lot of other people do, and in our case, enough of them die or get injured that our reputation has become quite notorious. Surely transportation planning can have some effect on changing that for the better.

Discussions like these show why it's so important that the people affected by these transit projects have a say in how they're implemented. I think one of FDOT's biggest problems is that at least locally, they impose suburban-minded plans on urban areas, regardless of what the affected neighborhoods need or want. In the case of the I-95 expansion, it was nice that they were finally made to listen.

[tufsu1]

Best conclusion post so far.

One point I'd like to make is regarding the bike/ped component.  Politics is always personal  (or at least it typically should be).  I'll never ride my bike over the Full Warren. 

really?

what if it is an amazing regional attraction, which is entirely possible?  For example, I don't live on the westside but I've rode the Baldwin trail.

[tufsu1]

and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely. 

you mean, like the one that will be built on the Fuller Warren Bridge?

[tufsu1]

Solid question.  I don't know?  50-100 bikes/peds per day?  What would be tragic is if it were 5 peds/bikes per day.

I pretty much guarantee that...and many more

Heck, the Main Street and Acosta bridges get several hundred each day now....and with a wider path and parking on at least one end, this may be a more attractive facility for recreation.

and then there's this new trail/bridge over Tampa Bay

http://tbo.com/pinellas-county/final-phase-of-courtney-campbell-trail-opens-today-20150622/?utm_content=buffer48bf7&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=buffer

[thelakelander]

^Yeah, I see more than that on the Acosta Bridge, when I cross in the morning now.  It's not unrealistic to expect that the FWB path will see much higher usage, given the design and access to Baptist Medical, Nemours, RAM, San Marco and Riverside.

[Adam White]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

We're not talking about transit or widening a roadway for extra auto capacity. I don't ride bikes on a daily basis either but given our pedestrian and cycling death rates, I can at least see the need to invest in a dedicated pedestrian and bicycle network throughout town. Anyway, what type of ridership numbers do you believe are needed to justify providing pedestrian and bicycle facilities in the middle of a city Jacksonville's size?

Solid question.  I don't know?  50-100 bikes/peds per day?  What would be tragic is if it were 5 peds/bikes per day.

But you'll never get those numbers without the investment. So it's a chicken and egg thing. But it's a worthwhile goal to pursue, for everyone. More people cycling can lead to less traffic congestion. It also can lead to less heart congestion.

[southsider1015]

Best conclusion post so far.

One point I'd like to make is regarding the bike/ped component.  Politics is always personal  (or at least it typically should be).  I'll never ride my bike over the Full Warren. 

really?

what if it is an amazing regional attraction, which is entirely possible?  For example, I don't live on the westside but I've rode the Baldwin trail.

I don't live on the Westside either, and I too have enjoyed the Baldwin Trail.  I'm all about the Rails to Trails, and riding bikes through the natural areas.  So, for the Baldwin Trail, it is personal, and not necessarily geographical.  The Fuller Warren Bike/Ped Bridge Widening isn't for me.  If it could be shown that the money spent would provide a new transportation mode that resulted in an improved economy/revunue stream/funding/etc. that benefited the area/City/region, than YES, I'm all about it. I just don't see it happening!

[southsider1015]

and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely. 

you mean, like the one that will be built on the Fuller Warren Bridge?

No, I meant more like the Baldwin Trail.

[southsider1015]

Solid question.  I don't know?  50-100 bikes/peds per day?  What would be tragic is if it were 5 peds/bikes per day.

I pretty much guarantee that...and many more

Heck, the Main Street and Acosta bridges get several hundred each day now....and with a wider path and parking on at least one end, this may be a more attractive facility for recreation.

and then there's this new trail/bridge over Tampa Bay

http://tbo.com/pinellas-county/final-phase-of-courtney-campbell-trail-opens-today-20150622/?utm_content=buffer48bf7&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=buffer

I'm curious...was there a recent bike/ped study done on the Main Street and Acosta Bridges?

Let me check some math...

Say that the typical hours for bikes/ped is 10 hours per day (8 AM - 6 PM).  And we'll use 200 bike/peds per day...  Thats 20 bikes/ped per hour, and 1 every 3 minutes.  Say that it takes about 20 minutes to cross the St. Johns River...then we really should see about 6 bikes/ped on the bridge at any given moment.

You're telling me that's happening today?  I honestly don't know, and that's why I'm asking. 

[southsider1015]

If the ridership numbers are there in 5 yeats, then great!  I just don't see it happening, even with a bike share program.  I just don't consider the bicycle to be a serious mode of transportation ever.  It's too unsafe (sure call me scared), and I'd rather ride a bike along a dedicated path leisurely.  The suburban way

We're not talking about transit or widening a roadway for extra auto capacity. I don't ride bikes on a daily basis either but given our pedestrian and cycling death rates, I can at least see the need to invest in a dedicated pedestrian and bicycle network throughout town. Anyway, what type of ridership numbers do you believe are needed to justify providing pedestrian and bicycle facilities in the middle of a city Jacksonville's size?

Solid question.  I don't know?  50-100 bikes/peds per day?  What would be tragic is if it were 5 peds/bikes per day.

But you'll never get those numbers without the investment. So it's a chicken and egg thing. But it's a worthwhile goal to pursue, for everyone. More people cycling can lead to less traffic congestion. It also can lead to less heart congestion.

Sure, I get that.  I'm all about smart infrastructure spending when the purpose and need can be shown to benefit as many citizens as possible.  FCX included.

But spare me the heart congestion reason.  People aren't obese because their aren't enough bridges with ped/bike paths.