Peter Rummell eyes $400-million vision for a healthy town along St. Johns River

[vicupstate]

Went to Sweet Pete's on Sunday and could not believe the amount of people walking around the block on a Sunday.  It goes to show what 1 place can do.  There were even families and little kids in Hemming Plaza.  I have never seen this in my 5 years in Jax.  You can see how important connectivity is to DT and how close the Laura St Trio is to all this action.  It is a shame the city can't see it.

I was in JAX in April for the first time in about 18 months  and Sweet Pete's was easily the most impressive and promising change I had witnessed since my last visit.  It is indeed destinations like S.P. that will potentially turn the tide DT.  Glad to see them expanding.   

[jcjohnpaint]

From what I understand, their investor wanted the towncenter.  Pretty glad that didn't happen.  There are some good things happening DT, but at a pretty slow pace.  I see the Trio as a no brainer to kick things into gear. 

[CCMjax]

I lived in Greenville for 2 years before moving down here a couple years ago.  In my opinion, Greenville's downtown is what makes it a great town.  No matter how old you were or if you had kids or if you were in high school, everyone went downtown to do something.  It was great.  You'd be walking around at 9 pm on a Monday night and there would be people of all ages just out and about downtown.  But it wasn't always like that, which is what is encouraging for places like Jacksonville.  I spoke with many people who grew up there and Greenville went from a dead downtown that nobody went to, to one of the most vibrant urban cores in the country let alone southeast.  There was a busy highway that went right over what is now Falls Park downtown (one of the most beautiful parks in the country), they tore that down (much like Jax needs to tear down the elevated highway on Bay Street), and now it is one of the best attractions of downtown.

Also, if you are a pessimist about downtown Jax revitalization, just do a little research on what's going on in Detroit.  Massive redevelopment of downtown and the Midtown neighborhood.  Things are progressing unbelievably there, with new restaurants and infill projects.  They are restoring historic buildings rather than tearing them down and even though Detroit has a long way to go, it is making great progress.  Honestly, coming from a Michigan native who has seen a lot of Detroit in my lifetime, if Detroit can do it, Jax can do it.  The people need to have passion for their city and believe it can happen.  I would also say, if Greenville can do it, Jax can do it. 

What do Detroit and Greenville have in common?  Great leadership.  People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.

[I-10east]

What do Detroit and Greenville have in common?  Great leadership.  People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.

Detroit?? I'm sorry but 'great leadership' doesn't come to mind when I think the Motor City.

[CCMjax]

I would agree with the order of importance.

1.  Laura Street Trio / Barnett Bldg  (these are the most historically and architecturally significant structures downtown, without them this city loses a lot of its history and a lot of its soul, without soul a city has nothing.  You never get them back once they are torn down).

2.  Shipyards development/Bay Street elevated highway removal (Khan has billions and wants to use some of it there now, the city needs to work with him.  There aren't many billionaires out there willing to throw down in Jax right now). 

3.  Landing Redevelopment (when I first went there about 5 years ago, I thought it was a shopping mall food court from the 80's transported downtown from some distant suburb, and laughed when I heard that was the big attraction downtown.  Such an odd design, why cut downtown off from the river with the ugly backside of a bizarre looking horseshoe looking thingy?  Need to open it up and need more greenspace, also need residents)

4.  Healthy Town (stupid name but great idea, I like what he's done elsewhere, but I think north bank is more important than south bank right now since it is the heart and soul of the urban core)

[CCMjax]

What do Detroit and Greenville have in common?  Great leadership.  People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.

Detroit?? I'm sorry but 'great leadership' doesn't come to mind when I think the Motor City.

That was true in years past, very very true.  But they have a new mayor who seems to be more interested in the city's redevelopment rather than the last three or four who were complete disasters.  Founder of Quicken Loans and chairman Dan Gilbert also pulls a lot a weight in that town and is investing heavily with the help of city leaders.  Same with Matt Cullen, CEO of Rock Ventures.  They have all formed kind of a team dedicated to investing in the city's core.

[ProjectMaximus]

Back to Healthy Town, these could be some of the ideas Rummell wants to implement. I know Ennis likes to laugh about the idea that stairs being in a prominent position encourages their use, but there's a whole lot more to it. And even with stairs, I think it does make sense that connecting with them visually upon entering a space makes them more inviting in the right context.

http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/architecture-urban-design-healthy-choices-exercise

[Noone]

Went to Sweet Pete's on Sunday and could not believe the amount of people walking around the block on a Sunday.  It goes to show what 1 place can do.  There were even families and little kids in Hemming Plaza.  I have never seen this in my 5 years in Jax.  You can see how important connectivity is to DT and how close the Laura St Trio is to all this action.  It is a shame the city can't see it.

I was in JAX in April for the first time in about 18 months  and Sweet Pete's was easily the most impressive and promising change I had witnessed since my last visit.  It is indeed destinations like S.P. that will potentially turn the tide DT.  Glad to see them expanding.   

+1

[vicupstate]

I lived in Greenville for 2 years before moving down here a couple years ago.  In my opinion, Greenville's downtown is what makes it a great town.  No matter how old you were or if you had kids or if you were in high school, everyone went downtown to do something.  It was great.  You'd be walking around at 9 pm on a Monday night and there would be people of all ages just out and about downtown.  But it wasn't always like that, which is what is encouraging for places like Jacksonville.  I spoke with many people who grew up there and Greenville went from a dead downtown that nobody went to, to one of the most vibrant urban cores in the country let alone southeast.  There was a busy highway that went right over what is now Falls Park downtown (one of the most beautiful parks in the country), they tore that down (much like Jax needs to tear down the elevated highway on Bay Street), and now it is one of the best attractions of downtown.

Also, if you are a pessimist about downtown Jax revitalization, just do a little research on what's going on in Detroit.  Massive redevelopment of downtown and the Midtown neighborhood.  Things are progressing unbelievably there, with new restaurants and infill projects.  They are restoring historic buildings rather than tearing them down and even though Detroit has a long way to go, it is making great progress.  Honestly, coming from a Michigan native who has seen a lot of Detroit in my lifetime, if Detroit can do it, Jax can do it.  The people need to have passion for their city and believe it can happen.  I would also say, if Greenville can do it, Jax can do it. 

What do Detroit and Greenville have in common?  Great leadership.  People with vision and knowledge of how to actually get stuff done.

+100.  Leadership is indeed the missing element in JAX in regards to DT.  That plus a good understanding by those leaders as to what does and does not create a quality urban environment.  It has NOTHING to do with consolidation or anything else. It is simply leadership. 

[vicupstate]

How would you guys rank the importance of proposed projects for downtown in terms of city funding? This would be mine personally.
1. Laura Street Trio
2. Shipyards
3. Landing
4. Healthy Town (just because they seem to have their funding in order)

My choices:

1. Laura Trio
2. Laura Trio
3. Laura Trio
4. Laura Trio

It is four buildings we are talking about and the urgency of each one is more important than any of the other three options.  JAX frankly needs to drop the Shipyards idea  altogether. It is simply not ready for it. It will only dilute the energy and money needed for the others. 

[Overstreet]

I read the article on Healthy Town and given the experience I have with Pete Rummell and his projects I'd say that this could be something different for Jacksonville.  He's serious. It will have outside designers and specialists from all over the country. At WindMark we had interior designers doing the buildings from New York, Miami, Colorado and other city centers. They even brought in Miraval. WindMark was in the boonies..............literally. But this one is in the city with city services.

[CityLife]

Without doing detailed research and cost benefit analysis, my spidey sense tells me these are the most important and realistic projects

1. Laura Street Trio-with right tenant mix
2. Healthy Town-Much more integrated into a vibrant area than Shipyards, with proximity to Skyway and 95. Development team has demonstrated past success.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway-relatively affordable mid rise redevelopment in the State/Union Corridor and renovations in Springfield/Eastside around this area are more feasible with a stronger demand than luxury riverfront residential at the Shipyards right now imo. Creating a great public park is also one of the biggest things DT is lacking.
4. The Landing-if designed and developed properly
5. Shipyards-Probably the highest ceiling project, but I have little faith in Khan pulling it off. He should focus on not running two sports franchises into the ground before he takes on a massive development project.

[jaxjaguar]

Not sure if anyone here has been to Baldwin Park in Orlando, but it reminds me a lot of the drawings I've seen for "healthy town". It's like a cross between Rummell's idea and the East San Marco Publix project. There are many midrises (unfortunately the street view below doesn't show the newer ones) with retail on the ground and residences above. There are several community gyms/pools/community centers available to all residents of the immediate surrounding areas for free.
One of the great things about Baldwin Park's downtown that Jacksonville should take note of is the parking system. There is plenty of parking, but it is hidden within each block. When you drive through the area it's similar to riverside with shops, restaurants and offices lining the sidewalks and cars parked along the curbs. Since you can't see vast empty parking lots everywhere it feels very urban and vibrant. If you can't find a spot on the street there's no worry as the Lynx (Orlando's BRT) runs very close by or you simply drive into one of the central lots contained within one of the blocks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.567681,-81.326912,3a,75y,44.42h,77.03t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9NLpTwEzDkX8u3O-8kcSPg!2e0!6m1!1e1

[Tacachale]

Without doing detailed research and cost benefit analysis, my spidey sense tells me these are the most important and realistic projects

1. Laura Street Trio-with right tenant mix
2. Healthy Town-Much more integrated into a vibrant area than Shipyards, with proximity to Skyway and 95. Development team has demonstrated past success.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway-relatively affordable mid rise redevelopment in the State/Union Corridor and renovations in Springfield/Eastside around this area are more feasible with a stronger demand than luxury riverfront residential at the Shipyards right now imo. Creating a great public park is also one of the biggest things DT is lacking.
4. The Landing-if designed and developed properly
5. Shipyards-Probably the highest ceiling project, but I have little faith in Khan pulling it off. He should focus on not running two sports franchises into the ground before he takes on a massive development project.

That's a good list. I'd do pretty much the same, but flip the Landing and Shipyards:

1. Laura Street Trio: I consider this the single most important opportunity in urban Jacksonville right now, and it's not going to happen without help from the city.
2. Healthy Town: This one is the most realistic, the furthest along, and will need the least incentives. Let's grab some low-hanging fruit for once.
3. Hogan's Creek Greenway: This isn't really the same type of development, but I'd rather devote our resources and time to this than either of the other two projects.
4. Khan's Shipyards: This could be big, but we need to make sure the deal is good for the city as well. We simply can't be in the business of paying people to take city property without knowing what the return will be.
5. The Landing: I don't think this should be in the running until we have some much stronger plans to look at. Fortunately, it's almost certainly going to look a LOT different now with the changeover in City Hall.

[CityLife]

@Jaxjaguar, Baldwin Park gets referenced a lot here. It's a good example of a traditional neighborhood development design. I think its pretty much a given that Healthy Town will hide parking behind structures, with the possibility of some on street parking.