LGBT PAC: Election Day Voter Guide! HRO Supporters/Opponents

[Jimmy]

Holy wow!  If you care about the HRO when you vote today, keep this in mind, please.

You can take this bad boy right into the voting booth with you.



www.lgbtpac.com

[Tacachale]

Really rich putting Curry on the list of those opposing the HRO, but leaving Alvin off. He did more damage to the HRO than anyone on that list besides Daniels.

[Tacachale]

Also, these things provide the homophobes with a convenient list of LGBT supporters and "opponents".

[Jimmy]

I disagree with regard to the first post, but agree to the second.  It's the risk you run.  Florida Family and Raymond Johnson did the same thing and helped us to identify opponents.

[Tacachale]

I'd love to know your thinking on leaving Brown off the list of opponents. He worked against the HRO once before and he hasn't made any firm commitment to change his position now.

[acme54321]

Yeah why isn't Alvin Brown on this?  Hmmmm.

[Jimmy]

It's definitely a middle ground question.  Scott Wilson has said that he's open to the HRO and that he won't be a carbon copy clone of his boss.  That's enough to keep him off the opponent list, but not on the supportive list.

Lenny Curry has said repeatedly that he doesn't believe there's discrimination in Jacksonville and doesn't believe the law should be changed.  That's opposed.

Mayor Brown has certainly evolved on the HRO and has made supportive statements in recent weeks.  Again, not enough to be on the supportive list, but he's not an opponent in 2015.

This is a forward-looking operation.

[Jimmy]

He's said it more forcefully in other places including on the radio and in the debates, but here it is in writing.

Yet some people, including special interest groups not from Jacksonville, advocate for changes to our city's laws. Changes that I have not been convinced are necessary or appropriate.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/letters-readers/2015-04-28/story/letters-lenny-curry-explains-position-hro

What's perhaps the worst part about this quote is where he lies about who is advocating for the HRO.  I'm not a special interest group and my family has lived here since William Pope Duval was the territorial governor.  So... there's that.

[Tacachale]

I can maybe see Curry being counted as an opponent, but not if Brown is somehow let off the hook. Again, Brown has done more damage to the HRO than any of the people who are actually listed as opponents (except possibly Kim Daniels). You're naive if you don't think he was out there lobbying council members to vote against the HRO.

His so-called "supportive statements" and "evolution" came only in the last days of a tight election, when it had become clear he was losing base Democrats. I don't like to think that the LGBT PAC fell for obvious pandering, but the alternative explanations are worse.

[Jimmy]

Thanks for pulling that up.

On a personal note, if you care to answer (if not no biggie), how deep is your concern that Brown is simply appeasing you with the "study" when he couldn't simply not answer the question anymore? On it's face it smacks of politiking of course.
And if the HRO doesn't get passed under Brown's next tenure how far will that set back the cause?

You're welcome. 

I'm not concerned about the study at all.  I know the lawyer(s) in the Office of General Council who are working on the study.  The study was designed in a way that it could only give advantage to our effort to pass the HRO here.  Mayor Brown isn't leading the charge, but he's set into motion the process that will let the City Lawyers and our bright and shiny new Council to do so.  Which is a kind of leadership, in my opinion.

If it fails again, we're no better or worse than we are today, from a civil rights perspective.  Our City will go through another round of bad press and more companies will avoid us.  But LGBT people will be no better or worse off.


I made the point above that this is a forward-looking assessment.  During the campaign, Ms. Daniels has maintained her opposition to to HRO.  Mayor Brown has become open to the update.  Not supportive, so not listed as supportive.  But not opposed during the campaign, so not listed as opposed.

[Tacachale]

Thanks for pulling that up.

On a personal note, if you care to answer (if not no biggie), how deep is your concern that Brown is simply appeasing you with the "study" when he couldn't simply not answer the question anymore? On it's face it smacks of politiking of course.
And if the HRO doesn't get passed under Brown's next tenure how far will that set back the cause?

You're welcome. 

I'm not concerned about the study at all.  I know the lawyer(s) in the Office of General Council who are working on the study.  The study was designed in a way that it could only give advantage to our effort to pass the HRO here.  Mayor Brown isn't leading the charge, but he's set into motion the process that will let the City Lawyers and our bright and shiny new Council to do so.  Which is a kind of leadership, in my opinion.

If it fails again, we're no better or worse than we are today, from a civil rights perspective.  Our City will go through another round of bad press and more companies will avoid us.  But LGBT people will be no better or worse off.


I made the point above that this is a forward-looking assessment.  During the campaign, Ms. Daniels has maintained her opposition to to HRO.  Mayor Brown has become open to the update.  Not supportive, so not listed as supportive.  But not opposed during the campaign, so not listed as opposed.

In other words, the PAC decided to read into Curry's statements, while ignoring Alvin's writing on the wall.

[Tacachale]

Thanks for pulling that up.

On a personal note, if you care to answer (if not no biggie), how deep is your concern that Brown is simply appeasing you with the "study" when he couldn't simply not answer the question anymore? On it's face it smacks of politiking of course.
And if the HRO doesn't get passed under Brown's next tenure how far will that set back the cause?

You're welcome. 

I'm not concerned about the study at all.  I know the lawyer(s) in the Office of General Council who are working on the study.  The study was designed in a way that it could only give advantage to our effort to pass the HRO here.  Mayor Brown isn't leading the charge, but he's set into motion the process that will let the City Lawyers and our bright and shiny new Council to do so.  Which is a kind of leadership, in my opinion.

If it fails again, we're no better or worse than we are today, from a civil rights perspective.  Our City will go through another round of bad press and more companies will avoid us.  But LGBT people will be no better or worse off.


I made the point above that this is a forward-looking assessment.  During the campaign, Ms. Daniels has maintained her opposition to to HRO.  Mayor Brown has become open to the update.  Not supportive, so not listed as supportive.  But not opposed during the campaign, so not listed as opposed.

In other words, the PAC decided to read into Curry's statements, while ignoring Alvin's writing on the wall.

lol.  thats rich.

Lenny says there is no problem.  THATS a problem.

Alvin says there is a problem, and is looking to see what changes need to be made to the laws.

This sounds like your earlier reasoning that the guy with no experience governing as mayor is actually more experienced than the sitting mayor.

Alvin says one thing and does another. THAT's the real problem, especially when what he says is such weak beer.

[Tacachale]

and Lenny says something crazy and then acts on it.

So long as his actions aren't crazier than working behind the scenes to defeat the HRO, it's still a net gain.

[Tacachale]

and Lenny says something crazy and then acts on it.

So long as his actions aren't crazier than working behind the scenes to defeat the HRO, it's still a net gain.

even though the alleged source of that rumor has unequivocally debunked that claim, you are still repeating it?

It hasn't been debunked, and in fact there's more evidence that it's true. And yes, I'm still repeating it, including on the front page of this website today.

[Tacachale]

Has Jones denied it? It's sure not what he said before, publicly and privately. Gaffney himself has also verified it, as have a number of people who haven't said so publicly. Based on what I'm hearing, I'm comfortable saying that I believe that Alvin lobbied council members to defeat the HRO in 2012.