Casbah/Biscotties VS Ben Davis/Intuition

[simonsays]

Incidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....

What would you like RAP to say on this?

Sorry, you misunderstand me.  I am merely noting that they have not  said anything.

[mtraininjax]

That is very true....but I don't know that it matters. Assuming the article is true, if Ben Davis wanted to help out the neighborhood then have that same lobbyist lobby that the bill should be amended to include all commercial areas of the neighborhood. Don't kill it.

Ben Davis - Head of the J Bill Police Force.......is life really that boring that he needed to hire a PR firm to combat two restaurants he has it in for? Don't look for Intuition beers anywhere near there or their sister restaurants anytime soon. The Biscottis owners have been in Jax for a very long time too....

[Ming The Merciless]

That is very true....but I don't know that it matters. Assuming the article is true, if Ben Davis wanted to help out the neighborhood then have that same lobbyist lobby that the bill should be amended to include all commercial areas of the neighborhood. Don't kill it.

Ben Davis - Head of the J Bill Police Force.......is life really that boring that he needed to hire a PR firm to combat two restaurants he has it in for? Don't look for Intuition beers anywhere near there or their sister restaurants anytime soon. The Biscottis owners have been in Jax for a very long time too....

Better to take action on something you believe in than sit around pissing and moaning on the internet all day. 

Don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS.  If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves. 

And I'm sure he's just terrified of the incredible market power wielded by Biscotti's and Casbah.  So very very scary <shivering>

[mtraininjax]

And don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS.  If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves. 

Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.

The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!

[Ming The Merciless]

And don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS.  If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves. 

Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.

The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!

Ad hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post.  Brilliant.  You have enlightened us all.

Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.

[mtraininjax]

Ad hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post.  Brilliant.  You have enlightened us all. Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.

Seems silly that a restaurant would want to change the world, but hey, maybe you can make it happen. You can hire a local J Bill Cop to protect your rights in Tallahassee. BREAKING NEWS - A fight has broken out a Tradewinds, calling all J Bill Cops.....please respond.

[Tacachale]

Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.

[MEGATRON]

And don't forget that those restaurants did the exact same thing to try to get their secret deal passed -- all Ben did was call them out on their BS.  If the restaurants want to better the neighborhood, then maybe they should do something that benefits the entirety and stop their consistent practice of only focusing on themselves. 

Calling Ben Davis, there is a J Bill issue in Jacksonville Beach, we need your resources now.....Why stop in Jacksonville, be a defender of J Bills all over the the state of Florida? Its not like the brewery business is that difficult.

The restaurants couldn't give 2 flips about "bettering the neighborhood". Tell yourself what you want, Mojo #4 moved in overnight....to "better the neighborhood". Restaurants are all about business and revenue. No one starts a restaurant to "better the neighborhood". That was a good one!

Interesting.  So, we should frown upon someone who takes an interest in the neighborhood in which he lives?  I suppose you and I have different thoughts on that issue. 

And then pulling the "better the neighborhood" argument.  The same argument that Biscottis made when fighting Mellow Mushroom. 

Frankly, targeting Mr. Davis is this situation is silly.  The bigger question is why did our elected officials not question this J Bill?  It's clearly spot zoning meant to benefit two supporters.  Where was Jim Love?  Why is one of Jay Fant's first moves an effort to pass a spot zoning bill?

And, again, where was RAP?  A piece of state legislation that affects our neighborhood is pushed through City Council and the state legislature and not a peep? 

[MEGATRON]

Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.

one hundred percent yes.

Getting Jim Love to screw John Valentino (and King Street) on the grounds of 'too much liquor' when it served their interests, and then turning right around and asking for help to get liquor exceptions for themselves is exactly representative of the kinds of insider baseball that is pure poison to small business districts.

Good on Ben for leveling the field so that the only option is to work together.

here here

[Tacachale]

Incidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....

What would you like RAP to say on this?

Considering RAP weighs in on every re-zoning issue in the neighborhood... particularly when there is an intensification of use, why silence on this one?

Yes, I'd be interested to hear RAP's explanation of their silence on their issue.

[simonsays]

Ad hominem and a lesson about the profit motive, all in one post.  Brilliant.  You have enlightened us all. Your work today is done - plenty of time to go walk the dogs.

Seems silly that a restaurant would want to change the world, but hey, maybe you can make it happen. You can hire a local J Bill Cop to protect your rights in Tallahassee. BREAKING NEWS - A fight has broken out a Tradewinds, calling all J Bill Cops.....please respond.

Forget it, Donny. You're out of your element.

[simonsays]

Good on Ben for putting his money where his mouth is. Now that the two restaurants have been called out, hopefully everyone will work together on a Jbill that works for everyone, not just two restaurants at the exclusion of others.

+ 1

[Andy]

Everyone's thoughts really helped clarify things for me, thank you. It sounds to me like it was a respectable move on Ben Davis' part.

I will note however: I believe that Casbah changed owners in the past year. Not sure what the specifics are, but I'd hesitate to call them hypocrites re:The Mellow Mushroom Debacle(TM), being that the current owners weren't around for it (to the best of my knowledge).

[Andy]

It has nothing to do with a brewery being afraid that they will loose sales to liquor companies (like most craft beer breweries, they can't produce enough to keep up with the demand for their product as it is).

The J Bill proposed was a classic case of spot zoning, which is 'zoning speak' for a situation whereas one parcel of land receives a special land use classification that is completely different from other properties in the same area. One person gets an advantage over others. Generally, spot zoning cases deal with the issue of fairness.

For context, in 2010 when Black Sheep was being constructed in Five Points.. their ownership group lobbied for a J Bill that would apply the same alchohol standards that downtown restaurants enjoy to Five Points and portions of North Riverside. Generally, these J Bills are looked at as economic development tools as a way to change zoning over a wide area in order to make that area more economically competitive given other inherent market disadvantages or unique characteristics of their built environment.

SRX alcohol licenses are issued to bona fide restaurants with 150+ seats whose food sales constitute 51% or more of the business' revenue. In dowtown, restaurants only need to have 100+ seats to be eligible for an SRX license.  In dense, urban environments... it generally isn't practical or desirable to apply suburban standards to restaurants (otherwise, you'd see a place like the Bostwick Building, Downtown Cigar Lounge and 1904 Music Hall-all small buildings with zero lot lines and no parking on site- get knocked down in order to build a suburban-style Applebees with a huge surface parking lot just to be able to have liquor sales in a restaurant). 

The J Bill Black Sheep got approved rolled Five Points and a portion of North Riverside into the downtown overlay in relation to SRX liceneses. This was good not only for Black Sheep, but for all commercial lands whose zoning allows for a restaurant use in these neighborhoods. In other words, it helped raise the economic tide for everyone. 

The J Bill proposed for Biscottis and Casbah only applies to their land... and their land only giving them a competitve advantage that no one else in Avondale would also be eligible for.

If you believe that's fair, then you would probably be for the J Bill they proposed. If you don't think that's fair, you would probably be against the Biscottis/Casbah J Bill.

This was an immensely helpful response, BTW, thank you.

[ProjectMaximus]

Incidentally, I note that RAP and the ridiculous "We Love Avondale" people have not uttered a sound on this....

What would you like RAP to say on this?

Considering RAP weighs in on every re-zoning issue in the neighborhood... particularly when there is an intensification of use, why silence on this one?

Yes, I'd be interested to hear RAP's explanation of their silence on their issue.

the silence is rather deafening.  One can hardly hear anything else, really.

Sounds like mtrain spoke for them.