A Blast From The Past: 1970s Jacksonville

[Keith-N-Jax]

I don't have a problem with signs but that pic is a bit cluttered IMO.

[finehoe]

Regulation for the sake of regulation is killing America.

Where is regulation for the sake of regulation happening?

[Tacachale]

Well, in downtown Jacksonville, it's happening with the signage policy, sidewalk dining, and permitting. The regulations there are frankly over the top.

[Gunnar]

I don't have a problem with signs but that pic is a bit cluttered IMO.

Using a zoom lens when taking the picture probably made it look more cluttered than it actually was.

[Noone]

Loved the tour. Nice work.

[spuwho]

The shocker for me was looking down Riverside in front of the Fire Station. I drive by there a lot.

What a change!

[RattlerGator]

Hmmmmmm. I have little nostalgia for downtown Jax from that era. This was the time of a MASSIVE influx of Jax residents into Orange Park and other suburban places in and around Duval County. I remember my older sister's boyfriend taking me to see Kung Fu movies at the Florida Theatre. Lets not unduly romanticize those days. Yeah, it was special watching Bruce Lee at the Florida Theatre but it was a decidedly seedy experience and -- even to a young kid-- the area was clearly in serious decline.

[Tacachale]

^That is very true.

[fieldafm]

The shocker for me was looking down Riverside in front of the Fire Station. I drive by there a lot.

What a change!

The boat dealer in that picture used to have some nice looking Donzis in that front showroom. I believe they were a Wellcraft dealer when I was in high school. I had a small 16 foot craft with an old and mostly unreliable 150hp Yamaha in high school that my friends and I would use to waterski in the Ortega River, and that dealer once fixed the POS outboard attached to my floating fiberglass death trap when it was clear that my usual treatment of Marvins Mystery Oil would no longer cut it.

My memory may be incorrect, but I am almost certain that the fire department also docked the JFRD marine units at that same boat yard (where Sidney Geffen park is now-sure would be nice to have a proper kayak launch at that site). At the time, I thought that my career path would either skew towards being a marine fireman or Marine Patrol officer.. or an engineer (neither happened). I also thought that by my present age, I would be retired. Oh, to be young and foolish again

[fieldafm]

Lets not unduly romanticize those days.

I don't think the point of the article is to overly romanticize downtown in the 70's, because your point is well taken that 1970's Jacksonville was not the shining urban mecca of the Southeast. But it is important to learn lessons from the past. The three things that jump out to me are:

a) There were a lot more people working downtown at the time

b) There were a lot more people living near downtown at the time. The population in the surrounding In-Town neighborhoods that fed (and still do) downtown had started to decline for sure, but there was still enough density to feed things like the corner grocery stores pictured. The actual 'downtown' population was still less then than what it is today. Its just that the surrounding neighborhoods (what many refer to as the In Town neighborhoods) still were fairly dense.

c) Thriving downtown environments often have attractive signage. Our current signage laws fixed some prevelant visual blight problems (I remember the mobile flashing signs that used to lign Cassat Ave growing up, for instance), but have also gone a bit overboard (effectively killing a fly with a sledgehammer instead of using a fly swatter)... esepcially in downtown Jax.

[fieldafm]

Actually there were a lot fewer people living in the neighborhoods at that time.

Not according to the Census.

[Gunnar]

By the end of the 70s, a plan to put into place elevated (moving) sidewalks along the second floors of the city center also discouraged the installation of signs that might be in the way of the system.

Those plans never materialized, and in fact have been forgotten by most, and the practice of not having hanging signs just became established practice, encouraged mightily by the anti advertising nuts associated with the issue now.

Seriously, you mean like this ? 



Explains a lot ...

[fieldafm]

By the end of the 70s, a plan to put into place elevated (moving) sidewalks along the second floors of the city center also discouraged the installation of signs that might be in the way of the system.

Those plans never materialized, and in fact have been forgotten by most, and the practice of not having hanging signs just became established practice, encouraged mightily by the anti advertising nuts associated with the issue now.

Seriously, you mean like this ? 



Explains a lot ...

Yes, you can read about it here:  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-sep-visions-of-yesteryear-the-1971-downtown-master-plan

If you walk down Hogan Street, you can see how the BB&T Building was constructed to accomodate this system of elevated walkways. You can also walk down Duval Street and see the elevated plazas built into the current JEA Building, which were also slated to be a part of this system.

Today, the talk about eliminating the Main Street Bridge ramps near the Landing, converting one-way streets back to two-way streets and re-designing Hemming Park are all about unwinding the failed Downtown Master Plan of the 1970s.

[fieldafm]

The first link you posted is not even the correct data subset to prove your (incorrect) point. The second link is the block report.

The census expanded the scope of the urbanized area report for Jax between 1960 and 1970 (because the City limits changed), so you have to break down the census tracts (which also changed, there are tables that allow you to trace the boundary changes). Once you do, you clearly see a loss of population withinin the In Town neighborhoods from 1960-2010. Hell, from 2000-2010 Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill and Ortega has lost close to 10% of its population. Once you started looking at areas like Panama Park, the population decreases are in the 20% range.

You don't even need to do take hours to break down the datasets. A look at aerials shows entire neighborhoods completely wiped out.

[Tacachale]

^My memory is that Mike is correct. Most of the urban core tracts have declined seriously.

In the last census, according to this Metro Jacksonville article Riverside-Avondale was still losing population in 2010, though it's likely due to gentrification at this point (more houses are full, but with younger people and smaller families). The only ones that have grown are the tracts in Southbank, San Marco, Downtown itself. A lot of that is due to the residential developments that have gone up, but those have been mostly within the last 10 or 15 years.