south Liberty Street Drama

[I-10east]

Isn't an idea just to remove the floating parking lot? Reroute the river walk around that block.

Realistically, anything substantial built there would require it to be filled in, and we have plenty of lots downtown that are vacant. Do we need another?

I totally agree.

[I-10east]

Like I keep saying, one good thing about it, atleast it's in the hands of the state. Worst case, they tear down the deck, and reroute the riverwalk; Best case, the FDOT redoes the river deck, and it lasts another 50-60 years or so.

[downtownbrown]

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/morning-edition/2015/02/editorial-liberty-street-collapse-shows-larger.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2015-02-05&u=WlI+uS2dnrpUQEXzA1dC%2FQ0a72b012&t=1423167604

the natives are restless.  This event just might be a positive catalyst.  Nice to see all the attention.

[edjax]

Like I keep saying, one good thing about it, atleast it's in the hands of the state. Worst case, they tear down the deck, and reroute the riverwalk; Best case, the FDOT redoes the river deck, and it lasts another 50-60 years or so.

I believe the city would be the one footing the bill.

[thelakelander]

We're obviously a city that loves to blow things up.  In this case, I'd recommend giving into our demolition craze the getting rid of the deck and "bridges" as opposed to paying millions to rebuild them. Reconfigure the riverwalk to go along the west, north and east sides of the "newly created" waterfront and turn it into a marina or wharf with tour boats, charter fishing vessels, etc.

[downtownbrown]

Like I keep saying, one good thing about it, atleast it's in the hands of the state. Worst case, they tear down the deck, and reroute the riverwalk; Best case, the FDOT redoes the river deck, and it lasts another 50-60 years or so.

I believe the city would be the one footing the bill.

FDOT will be inspecting the "bridges" (Coastal and Liberty) but the city will be inspecting the parking lot.  if it's not sound, I can't see how it could be rebuilt. Best to turn it back into river 

[edjax]

We're obviously a city that loves to blow things up.  In this case, I'd recommend giving into our demolition craze the getting rid of the deck and "bridges" as opposed to paying millions to rebuild them. Reconfigure the riverwalk to go along the west, north and east sides of the "newly created" waterfront and turn it into a marina or wharf with tour boats, charter fishing vessels, etc.

Love this idea!

[thelakelander]

Like I keep saying, one good thing about it, atleast it's in the hands of the state. Worst case, they tear down the deck, and reroute the riverwalk; Best case, the FDOT redoes the river deck, and it lasts another 50-60 years or so.

I believe the city would be the one footing the bill.

FDOT will be inspecting the "bridges" (Coastal and Liberty) but the city will be inspecting the parking lot.  if it's not sound, I can't see how it could be rebuilt. Best to turn it back into river 

FDOT has $33 million budgeted in 2020 for the bridge replacement of Coastline Drive and Liberty Street. The former courthouse parking lot is not included in that number. At this point, I'd rather see the entire thing come down and that $33 million invested in something else......assuming it can stay local.

[downtownbrown]

^it would take a bunch of that 33 million to demolish it 

[thelakelander]

^If $33 million is the replacement cost, I assume a portion of that is to demolish. I'd suggest only demolishing, modifying the riverwalk and letting FDOT spent their remaining funds budgeted for this site elsewhere. Sort of like Orlando using FDOT to resurface Edgewater Drive as a lane diet and then FDOT handing over future maintenance to Orlando.

Replacing both streets and the parking lot cost a lot more money than $33 million. However, at some point (possibly in the near future) we're going to have to do. All talk about replacing aging infrastructure in downtown usually involves the Mathews Bridge or the Hart Bridge's viaduct through the Sports District. We rarely think about this large block as being an aging bridge itself. Instead we've discussed putting a convention center on it or turning it into a park. Since it's already literally falling into the river, neither of those ideas may be financially prudent. Perhaps the better answer is to remove the 1950s bridge?  If we did remove it, what could that space become?  A marina? wharf, waterfront spot for fishing? a better/centralized site for the USS Adams? It's an interesting conversation that we haven't seriously considered at this point.

[downtownbrown]

a little perspective: if the hole was caused by a single structural failure (the simplest possible circumstance), it would take at least 12 months to make the repair (including demo, design, proposal, bids, actual construction).  Add to that the time it would take City Council to appropriate the money (6 months at least based on the other hole experience). so best possible case is a year and a half from the time the structural forensics are complete.

So to be realistic, i'd say double that.  No Liberty Street until at least 2018.  Get your brain around that.

[downtownbrown]

...and no power to those townhomes yet.  How many neighborhoods in Jax go without power for over a week because of some city structural failure?  I doubt there will be power a week from now.  And no action by FDOT yet.  I hope the media stays on this.  Getting to be kind of outrageous.

[Bridges]

^If $33 million is the replacement cost, I assume a portion of that is to demolish. I'd suggest only demolishing, modifying the riverwalk and letting FDOT spent their remaining funds budgeted for this site elsewhere. Sort of like Orlando using FDOT to resurface Edgewater Drive as a lane diet and then FDOT handing over future maintenance to Orlando.

Replacing both streets and the parking lot cost a lot more money than $33 million. However, at some point (possibly in the near future) we're going to have to do. All talk about replacing aging infrastructure in downtown usually involves the Mathews Bridge or the Hart Bridge's viaduct through the Sports District. We rarely think about this large block as being an aging bridge itself. Instead we've discussed putting a convention center on it or turning it into a park. Since it's already literally falling into the river, neither of those ideas may be financially prudent. Perhaps the better answer is to remove the 1950s bridge?  If we did remove it, what could that space become?  A marina? wharf, waterfront spot for fishing? a better/centralized site for the USS Adams? It's an interesting conversation that we haven't seriously considered at this point.

So would FDOT be responsible for the cost of demolishing the whole bridge?

[downtownbrown]

FDOT only owns the "bridges" that we know as South Liberty St. and Coastal Drive.  The parking lot is the city's.  I'm sure the solution will be to fix the holes on Liberty only.  That is, if FDOT and the city determine that the rest of the structure is sound.

It will take a good deal of convincing if the state and city announce that the hole is an isolated incident.  Inspection by remote device begins tomorrow.

[thelakelander]

FDOT already has plans to replace the bridges for $33 million in 2020.  This means, some form of demolition will take place within 10 years anyway. Whatever happens now is only a patch up job.