Jacksonville Mayoral election 2015

[johnnyliar]

Lenny straight up asking "Do you think I'm a racist?"

whoa

[thelakelander]

Good lawd. This debate.....

[bill]

^No matter how you slice it, Curry's experience is going to come out looking better than Brown's. Not only did he have even less experience than Curry, he's effectively proven over the last four years that he's not up to the job.

No matter how you slice it, Lenny Curry is a Republican politician which will take priority  before any other 'business'.  Lenny Curry is a young white male, who has been groomed by the Republican party to take Jacksonville, FL.  Candidates don't receive endorsement from Rick Perry for being a good accountant.  Gov. Scott's endorsement would be for Micky Mouse if Mickey was the only Republican in the race.  Lenny Curry will not part from the Republican stance if elected for 4 years.  Mayor Alvin Brown will work w/ others and I do admire the strong leadership he has taken On a FEW things. 

Any Gaffney endorsement lacks credibility. Period.  I haven't read the article, but if Gaffney endorse Curry because he said 'he was pressured by Brown to change his vote on HRO" shows a person with a spine made out of paper.   A spine made out of money he expects from others when they do their dirty work.  Again, I have personal experiences w/ both Gaffney's (actual 3) so I'm stating from experiences on how Gaffney rolls. 

I agree with much of this but can't think of a thing of importance that Brown has actually led on.   He is weak in leadership.  In my decision I had to balance that against the far right GOP associations of Curry in politics and money and found those to be deal breakers along with who he surrounded himself with during the campaign.  Curry is a repeat of Peyton in many ways.

I can think of a couple that the Mayor has led on.

1. Sports Development and emphasizing that it be downtown.
Giving Khan anything he wants? Great example
2. Downtown itself. There has been a hell of a lot more direct action downtown that leads to actual people coming there than the past 15 years.
Giving Slieman anything he wants? see above
3. Finally asserting the tool of foreclosing on historic buildings that are being demolished through neglect as in the case of the Bostwick Building.
One rich person with more money than sense? congrats
4. Making literally the first effort from the city hall side of things to understand and improve public education by appointing a person to do that.

5.  Having the largest outreach to the hispanic community, the african american chamber of commerce and the Asian community in the history of Jville.  The mayor has built each of these communities into the process of government, and for the first time in a long time the decision making process involving community organizations looks a lot more like the city than any other administration of the past 30 years.  I know a lot of the white people on these forums know little or nothing about how many residents these organizations represent, but its substantial.
So the worst 4 years of crime and murder in Duvals history is considered "outreach" 
In prior years, the 'diversity' effort has mostly been a bunch of white people occasionally meeting with a few fundamentalist preachers with big african american (voting) congregations to talk about 'poverty' and crime, but nothing else of much importance to the daily lives of businesses and negotiating your way through the various institutional layers of the city.

Brown has quietly and effectively included a much larger group of citizens in this community, and not just along black and white lines.  I was actually surprised how much communication goes on with the Asian and Latino communities.

But since we appear to be mostly considering the opinions of white republicans, Im not surprised that this hasn't been seen as 'leadership'.

How has Alvin led on the HRO? Would it have been 19-0 without his leadership?

[Jimmy]

Good lawd. This debate.....

^ Yes, this.

I was in the room with the rest of the #jaxpol tweeters.  Groans were heard as both candidates artfully (and not so artfully on the HRO) dodged.

It was brutal. 8 days.

[bill]

Good lawd. This debate.....

^ Yes, this.

I was in the room with the rest of the #jaxpol tweeters.  Groans were heard as both candidates artfully (and not so artfully on the HRO) dodged.

So why support such a clown?

It was brutal. 8 days.

[Steve]

I can think of a couple that the Mayor has led on.

1. Sports Development and emphasizing that it be downtown.
Giving Khan anything he wants? Great example
2. Downtown itself. There has been a hell of a lot more direct action downtown that leads to actual people coming there than the past 15 years.
Giving Slieman anything he wants? see above
3. Finally asserting the tool of foreclosing on historic buildings that are being demolished through neglect as in the case of the Bostwick Building.
One rich person with more money than sense? congrats

How has Alvin led on the HRO? Would it have been 19-0 without his leadership?

What has he given Sleiman? Have you seen a different landing in the past 4 years than I have? Look, I don't think downtown is far enough along compared to other cities, but it seems like there is at least a direction here.

And as far as sports, the only thing that Khan has received was the 2/3 of the costs of the scoreboards and pools (and look, what Pro Sports owner doesn't get 40 million for a city-owned facility every few years so Jax is hardly unique in this).

We've had a quite a good run of sports events for a mid-sized city (USMNT Send-Off Game, NCAA Regional Tournament, Curling in 2016, etc.). Some of these are pretty random (e.g. Curling even though I like it) but at least he's carving out his thing and going after it.

And as far as historic preservation, when was the last time that a historic building downtown that is marked for demolition DIDN'T come down? I honestly can't remember. I actually think that's a pretty good win. Did Brown do it himself? Certainly not. However, if you're going to blame the CEO when something goes bad, give the man credit when something goes well.

Look, vote for who you want (voting for Curry because of Brown's fiscal policies or his woeful performance on HRO can hardly be argued), but if you're decision is based on Khan and Sleiman being in his pocket, then you clearly are disconnected from the current going's on.

Besides, you're going to vote for the former chair of the Florida Republican party because you don't like people having their hand in the pockets of politicians? I'm a Republican and that makes no sense.

[mtraininjax]

Its not what he has given Sleiman or Khan, its what they have given him, financial and public support......with the hope down the road that he will do the same. You'd have to have "come down with the last drop of rain" to not realize that a Brown Administration is going to be an easier road for Sleiman (and his Landing Projects) and Khan (and his shipyard projects) than a new Curry Administration. I'm a Republican and even I see that one.

I find more fault with Brown over his inept leadership when it comes to things like the Budget, the HRO issue, Laurie Boyer finding 50 million in funds to help pay for basic city services. Besides Brown showing up for every camera opportunity, and the cameras do love him, I think he should be getting more help or new help on the city's finances. If his pension plan was such a good one, why didn't the City Council buy in? He shot himself in the foot with them in the beginning and now he has created an adversarial approach with them, one that will continue another 4 years. No matter what happens around him and in this city, I don't see him as a leader of our great city, he's only a caretaker.

[edjax]

I can think of a couple that the Mayor has led on.

1. Sports Development and emphasizing that it be downtown.
Giving Khan anything he wants? Great example
2. Downtown itself. There has been a hell of a lot more direct action downtown that leads to actual people coming there than the past 15 years.
Giving Slieman anything he wants? see above
3. Finally asserting the tool of foreclosing on historic buildings that are being demolished through neglect as in the case of the Bostwick Building.
One rich person with more money than sense? congrats

How has Alvin led on the HRO? Would it have been 19-0 without his leadership?

What has he given Sleiman? Have you seen a different landing in the past 4 years than I have? Look, I don't think downtown is far enough along compared to other cities, but it seems like there is at least a direction here.

And as far as sports, the only thing that Khan has received was the 2/3 of the costs of the scoreboards and pools (and look, what Pro Sports owner doesn't get 40 million for a city-owned facility every few years so Jax is hardly unique in this).

We've had a quite a good run of sports events for a mid-sized city (USMNT Send-Off Game, NCAA Regional Tournament, Curling in 2016, etc.). Some of these are pretty random (e.g. Curling even though I like it) but at least he's carving out his thing and going after it.

And as far as historic preservation, when was the last time that a historic building downtown that is marked for demolition DIDN'T come down? I honestly can't remember. I actually think that's a pretty good win. Did Brown do it himself? Certainly not. However, if you're going to blame the CEO when something goes bad, give the man credit when something goes well.

Look, vote for who you want (voting for Curry because of Brown's fiscal policies or his woeful performance on HRO can hardly be argued), but if you're decision is based on Khan and Sleiman being in his pocket, then you clearly are disconnected from the current going's on.

Besides, you're going to vote for the former chair of the Florida Republican party because you don't like people having their hand in the pockets of politicians? I'm a Republican and that makes no sense.

Well Sleiman did get a crapload of credits to build his roads for his project out at Hodges and Atlantic. 

[fieldafm]

What has he given Sleiman?

$11 million in Mobility Fee credits... which can also be sold (for cash) to other developers.

The FY2014/2015 budget proposed by the Mayor also included $11.8million to be given to the Jacksonville Landing for redevelopment purposes (all of which taxpayers would have had to borrow), which was subsequently denied by City Council.

No opinion stated, just facts.

[fieldafm]

You do realize that Rummell currently derives income from AvalonBay which produces these 'sprawlsters' like:

Little Tokyo (LA)


Back Bay (Boston)


University District (Seattle)



Who's also the chief financier of this small Jacksonville-based shin dig called 'One Spark'


And who is about to embark on this 'sprawling' downtown development project called Healthy Town



But, good call trying to compare that to millions of dollars in taxpayer handouts for this:

[fieldafm]

Alvin Brown=Toney Sleiman

Lenny Curry=Peter Rummell

Thanks for making that distinction clear.  Seems like a pretty no-brainer if you are a pro-downtown person (see above examples).

[Tacachale]

LOL. Field is probably the single fairest person on these forums when it comes to talking about Toney Sleiman. Especially compared to comments like these:

The Council has oversight over all government functions, obvsly.  But this is one of those examples where a firm round of competent leadership under a mayor not partially captured by political clown cars like Sleiman's tea party would have already put an end to something this egregiously self serving.

Still cant get over all the people who werent stupid enough to fall for your candidate, Mike Hogan eh?

...

Seriously, can you even imagine a town run by the Tea Party and Toney Sleiman?  That was where we were headed.

Plus this from 2011?

Brown will have the support of community stalwarts such as Peter Rummell, Hugh Greene, John Baker, Marty Lanahan, Bill Scheu, Pete Carpenter, Jim Rinaman and Walt Bussells.

Hogan will be listening to people like Toney Sleiman and Billie Tucker.

Brown is the best choice.

Anyway, the fact that Peter Rummell and Toney Sleiman are very different is clear. Just look at their projects. Hell, just look at the projects they're trying to pull off downtown. There's no comparing Sleiman's Landing project to Rummell's Healthy Town.

[fieldafm]

mr no spending

Wait, are we talking about Lenny Curry... or Alvin Brown? Because Brown submitted three budgets that were so bad that City Council had to do all of his dirty work for him. If it wasn't for City Council, Brown wouldn't have given the city enough money to do simple things like mow lawns and fix potholes.

he still doesn't believe that Jax has any examples of anti gay discrimination.

Are we talking about tax incentives, or about the HRO? 

If you are talking about tax incentives, then yes I believe they should go to areas that have had systematic disinvestment for decades (downtown, In Town neighborhoods, etc) in order to spur redevelopment opportunities... not to strip malls on the Southside.

If you are talking about the HRO you'll have to forgive me then if I am not impressed by a man who did nothing for the HRO for four years, saw a bunch of poll numbers that indicated that he was going to have a tough time getting his base of voters to turn out mainly due to inaction on such broken promises as the HRO and then sent a memo to an attorney to 'study' the issue... an attorney who just so happens to be on leave until well after the election will be over with. 

I fail to see where Brown has led with distinction on either of those issues.

[Tacachale]

I find this to be a very odd comment:

And that bizarre ideologue attitude is exactly what got us in the position of facing a Shands' closure.  He would rather be ideologically pure than actually help the city.

He elected a governor that boxed himself into this pretty awful position as a result of multiple lies he told about how he would handle medicare.  You know....to get elected.  And his bizarre belief that as governor he should be against the ACA has brought us here.  Curry showed last night that he is literally cut from the same cloth.

We've got to fight Obamacare?  Really?  Even if we go without a major hospital that serves the poorest among us.

It was just very very bizarre.  And I wasn't sure what he was running for.

So *Curry* is to blame for the UF Health issue? Brown hasn't done boo for UF Health at any point in his term. He never even acknowledged it was a problem until the last few weeks. And even that has been a political ploy, like his all new faintly-positive HRO stance: his campaign knows they were losing base Democratic voters and had to try something to make it look like he was on their side.

Blast Curry on this issue if you want, but Brown deserves every bit as much blasting.

sorry.  i used the word simian in the post above.  Its correct, but ophidian is more apt.

Classy.

[Tacachale]

He won't and can't do anything about Obamacare as Mayor of Jacksonville, Florida. It's a non-issue in a mayoral race. What does matter for Jacksonville is what the mayor does to keep UF Health afloat. Or what he doesn't do.

This is an area where you can criticize Curry for saying silly things, but one should be equally critical of Brown for *doing* silly things, which don't mesh with what he says.