St. Johns Town Center's Nordstroms Wing

[Metro Jacksonville]

St. Johns Town Center's Nordstroms Wing



Images of the latest retail esplanade at St. Johns Town Center.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-dec-st-johns-town-centers-nordstroms-wing

[Keith-N-Jax]

Looks very nice.

[jaxjaguar]

Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight, very well maintained grounds throughout the entire facility, music played from the planters, plenty of security on segways and a good mix of high and low end stores....

One day downtown...one day....

[Downtown Osprey]

^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.

[KenFSU]

^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.

Downtown Disney.

Duh...

[jaxjaguar]

^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.

Why does that have to be the norm? Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? What is it about downtown that attracts these people and keeps them around? What is it about the Town Center, Ponte Vedra, Neptune Beach, Flemming Island, South Side, Nocatee that keeps them away? One of the first things I noticed about downtown St Pete and Houston, in my recent trips over the holidays, was the virtual lack of homeless or vagrants ANYWHERE in the city.

[KenFSU]

^ comparing the Town Center to Downtown? C'mon. What downtown doesn't have a homeless population.

Why does that have to be the norm? Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? What is it about downtown that attracts these people and keeps them around?

Easy answer. Most of the city's major social and homeless services are located downtown. The Sulzbacher Center, Clara White Mission, City Rescue Mission, etc. The jail is only a few blocks away too, so when prisoners are released, they often end up downtown. Mass deinstitutionalization in the 1980s was also responsible for putting a lot of mentally ill people on the streets.

[finehoe]

^^^Plus, most homeless people don't have cars.

[blizz01]

Bus station(s), trains, etc. too.

[Lunican]

The St. Johns Town Center is private property so they can kick anyone they want out. It doesn't work like that on public streets.

What do you think the security guards on Segways are for?

[Ocklawaha]

Disney/orlando just loads em on a bus and sends them to Jacksonville.

I'd rather be in Jacksonville.

[jaxjaguar]

Is there a reason we can't stop cities from shipping their problems here? I mean it's a win/win for them and a lose/lose for us. They get to say, "Hey! Look how clean our streets are and how you won't get heckled! You should come here and not Jacksonville because they have all of the dirty, crazy people." On the other hand we're just letting them wander around aimlessly, defecate in our bushes, beg for cash and sleep in our parks/sidewalks.

[KenFSU]

Why can't Jacksonville be the front runner in eliminating them? ...

Is there a reason we can't stop cities from shipping their problems here? I mean it's a win/win for them and a lose/lose for us. They get to say, "Hey! Look how clean our streets are and how you won't get heckled! You should come here and not Jacksonville because they have all of the dirty, crazy people." On the other hand we're just letting them wander around aimlessly, defecate in our bushes, beg for cash and sleep in our parks/sidewalks.

"In my younger and more venerable years my father gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since. "Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone," he told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." - F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

Please do try to remember that amongst the trouble-makers and aggressive panhandlers are a lot of people who genuinely need help. Had the cards been dealt differently, it could be any one of us on the streets without a place to go. Mixed in with the winos and derelicts are the mentally disabled, war veterans, crack babies, women fleeing abusive situations, and those just honestly down on their luck. Don't need to have a bleeding heart to be troubled by such a blanket generalization of the homeless population. 

P.S. Eliminating or relocating the homeless population downtown would only force Jacksonville to come up with a new lazy excuse as to why we've fallen so miserably behind most other comparable cities in regards to downtown revitalization over the last 50 years. Our homeless "problem" isn't particularly special or unique, and every other city has figured it out. Provide a hospitable climate for downtown businesses and residents and focus your efforts on carefully planning and developing nearby clusters of dense, mixed, vibrant, complementing uses, and it won't matter if there are zero homeless people or a thousand. People will be crawling over each other to be a part of your downtown. The best way to deal with the homeless situation is to make downtown attractive and desirable for everyone else.

[simms3]

Not a homeless person / vagrant / panhandler / "scary yelling drunk person" in sight, very well maintained grounds throughout the entire facility, music played from the planters, plenty of security on segways and a good mix of high and low end stores....

One day downtown...one day....

You mentioned DT St. Pete and Houston as model downtowns without homeless people anywhere.  St. Pete is the largest city in the country's largest retirement zone in America (not to mention its downtown is tiny).  Its demographics is notably different from most major cities and its economy revolves around the old [white-Midwestern] people that live there.  Houston's downtown is further behind Atlanta's in terms of mixed use development and it is one of the deadest, single-use downtowns in America.  2 bad comparisons for downtown standouts.

Where you will likely see a few homeless and some grit is in Manhattan and in Chicago, Boston, Denver, and DC.  Where you'll see a bit more is in Philly.  Where you'll see literally a TON of homeless is in SF, Portland, and Seattle.  These are the country's best downtowns and they all have homeless, none have mall cops riding around on seqways, and maintained grounds are a little more sparse and unplanned, to be used by all, including a ton of homeless (where else are they going to go even in the most homeless-free downtowns?).

Lack of homelessness is a "perk", but by no means an indicator of a great downtown.  In fact, in the grand sceme of things, DT St. Pete is more or less a Disney-fied downtown in a wealthy retirement area and downtown Houston is the deadest downtown of any Major city in America (Houston being a major city, Jax not really considered a major city).

FTR, the St. Johns Town Center is nothing more than a dime a dozen around this country.  Many cities have several even more "urban" versions of it in their own suburbs.  Great for Jax, but nothing that could or should ever be compared to any downtown anywhere.

[jcjohnpaint]

Hell, you can't go a block in Philly without a homeless begging for money and they can be a lot more aggressive than in Jax.  I remember a homeless guy getting turned down and throwing a brick at the person.  SJTC is a mall .  I don't know too many malls with homeless people hanging out.