First it was Regency's Belk, now AMC?- Atlantic North could add theater

[tufsu1]

Actually several people interviewed on the news asked the same queation folks on here have....Why?  And no jealousy here.. I go to AMC Regency for big movies and love it.

But come give our intown theaters a shot.  The 5 Points Theater has didgital projection and a decent sound system.  Plus its locally owned and you can get beer and pizza there!

[E_Dubya]

Actually several people interviewed on the news asked the same queation folks on here have....Why?  And no jealousy here.. I go to AMC Regency for big movies and love it.

But come give our intown theaters a shot.  The 5 Points Theater has didgital projection and a decent sound system.  Plus its locally owned and you can get beer and pizza there!

I went there for Star Wars last month. I prefer going to a theater that will serve me beer while I enjoy a movie.

[Tacachale]

Southsider, from your posts it sounds like you haven't been to San Marco Theater or Sun-Ray. Neither are "1960s screens", they're very cool places to see movies. Both have modern equipment and sound and comfortable theaters where you can get food and drinks. Sun-Ray, especially, has really good food and beer, and plays movies other theaters often don't get. Both are also surrounded by shops and bars and things so you don't have to just get back in the car after the movie.

Also, if you think Regency is just "decent" you must not have gone recently. The recent upgrades with recliner seating and full bar make it easily the best megaplex experience in the region. The food and beer isn't as good as Sun-Ray, and it's not near anything else, but that's true of the other big chain theaters as well.

I wouldn't mind seeing a theater open up downtown, but I wouldn't put it on a list of priorities right now.

[Tacachale]

Ah, two small cool theaters huh.  Theres just nothing like watching The Revenant on a 1960s screen, right?

What a joke. 

Honestly, your posts stink of jealously.  You'll never admit it, though of course.  You're dieing to see redevelopment in your communities, and when another one looks to add new development, you cant seem to find anything positive to say.  Meanwhile, the Southside community is excited to see the development built out.

Maybe it's the attitudes of downtown that are preventing any decent and effective development there.

There are reasons to take issue with parts of this project for reasons beyond the urban-suburban rivalry. The major thing is that it's a greenfield development that not only avoided paying concurrency fees, but received $11 million in re-sellable mobility fee credits under the Brown administration, on account of the developer being Brown's biggest donors. There's a problem there well outside of any jealously or rivalry. Also, while it's less a specific problem with this project than a systemic problem with sprawl in general, a lot of what it promises isn't really "new". A lot of what's going there is stuff that was already at Regency and is leaving. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also not something that should be subsidized.

[Tacachale]

Ah, two small cool theaters huh.  Theres just nothing like watching The Revenant on a 1960s screen, right?

What a joke. 

Honestly, your posts stink of jealously.  You'll never admit it, though of course.  You're dieing to see redevelopment in your communities, and when another one looks to add new development, you cant seem to find anything positive to say.  Meanwhile, the Southside community is excited to see the development built out.

Maybe it's the attitudes of downtown that are preventing any decent and effective development there.

There are reasons to take issue with parts of this project for reasons beyond the urban-suburban rivalry. The major thing is that it's a greenfield development that not only avoided paying concurrency fees, but received $11 million in re-sellable mobility fee credits under the Brown administration, on account of the developer being Brown's biggest donors. There's a problem there well outside of any jealously or rivalry. Also, while it's less a specific problem with this project than a systemic problem with sprawl in general, a lot of what it promises isn't really "new". A lot of what's going there is stuff that was already at Regency and is leaving. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also not something that should be subsidized.

to be fair, wasn't that actually passed by city council, tacachale

The council approves it, but it's the administration that assesses the fees. If I recall correctly, the city had originally assessed a $3 million-or-so dollar fee, but when Sleiman protested, they "reviewed" it again and determined that the city owed *him* credits.

[Tacachale]

I think there was still bad blood between the admin and sleiman back then.

Bill Bishop and Robin Lumb and the councilmen hoping to court the tea party were the first on that bandwagon, if you review our threads at the time.

If you recall, Sleiman wasn't a supporter of Democrat Alvin Brown during his election.  He heavily donated to Mike Hogan, and actually sponsored the Tea Party rallies at the Landing.

In fact, he infamously called the election for Hogan before the election was over that night.

This happened in March of 2015. Sleiman was one of Brown's major supporters at that time:

Second city look at fees pushes developer credit from $3.6 million to $11 million
By Christopher Hong Sat, Apr 25, 2015 @ 9:40 pm | updated Sun, Apr 26, 2015 @ 9:13 am

A prominent Jacksonville developer received an $11 million credit last month from City Hall to build a road project near his company's budding shopping and residential development in East Arlington, which will allow him to avoid paying millions in fees that reimburse taxpayers for the development's impact to nearby traffic.

That's a stark reversal from months earlier: City planners initially said a majority of the project — to be built by a company co-owned by local developer Toney Sleiman — didn't provide enough benefits to the public to qualify for the credit, which is offered to developers who build road projects that reduce traffic congestion near their developments.

The company proposed building a network of streets initially estimated to cost $14 million and wanted credit for the full construction amount. The city initially said that two of those roads could earn half credit and the others deserved none. That amounted to $3.6 million worth of construction qualified for credit.

Sleiman, co-owner of The Jacksonville Landing and one of Mayor Alvin Brown's most vocal re-election boosters, can use the $11 million in credit his company received to offset the $3.8 million mobility fee assessed to the development. His company, Atlantic North LLC, can bank the leftover credits to pay off, dollar for dollar, mobility fees for future developments. The company can also sell the credits to other developers.

...

http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-04-25/story/second-city-look-fees-pushes-developer-credit-36-million-11-million

However, either way, the point is that the city subsidized this development, not based on its benefit to the city, but on the connections of the developer.

[spuwho]

The mobility credit issue centered on 2 things.

COJ wanted a mobility fee for the entire development up front and Slieman argued (successfully) that since it wasnt fully occupied the impact wasnt going to be borne immediately. Therefore he wanted to increment the fee as he added new tenants, otherwise his current tenants would have to bear the entire fee passed through in their rents which would have made the development uncompetitive and scared away prospects. If COJ had enforced the entire fee and Sleiman could not get it occupied, he would lose his shirt.

The second issue was the streets he built around Atlantic North to get the fee credits.  Most of them were simply access roads to the surrounding apartments but the contention was over Marketplace Drive. He wanted mobility credits for it and at first the city refused.

His argument was that he extended Abess Road west and got credit, but Marketplace while it met with Withrow at Atlantic, didnt meet the fee credit requirements. Suddenly there was a reversal of that decision and he got the fee credits for it which put him in the green.

Now he can rent the rest of the surrounding properties at low risk due to all the fee credits he got for building 2 streets on his nickel.

[thelakelander]

Problem was, those streets would have had to be built regardless for his development to be successful.  Traffic flow on Kernan and Atlantic, in that immediate vicinity, would be better off without his development. At the end of the day, the public got the short end of the stick. However, this particular project isn't unique. Since the 1950s, this has been pretty typical in Jax.

[spuwho]

I spoke with the local manager this weekend for Regal Cinemas-Beach Boulevard and he said noting official has been discussed or announced about the future of the theater.

He noted that the lease is coming up shortly and with declining ticket sales (his words) at this property they need to make a decision fairly soon.

I said something that Regal on Beach was one of the last chain theaters that had yet to get upgrades here in greater Jax and he concurred.

They highlighted how Regal Corporate is moving to full beer and food sales and that this site was never designed for it.  Anything other than soda, popcorn and ice cream has to be fetched from a temporary kitchen in the back store room. 

Until Regal Corporate makes an announcement, they said they are told nothing.

Lets hope Regal can work it out to keep a theater on Beach Boulevard. It really needs a refresh.

[pierre]

When I lived out at the beach, I would go to that theater on occasion. Unless it was a kids movie, it was almost always empty.

And in serious need of a refresh.

[KenFSU]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/movie-theater-planned-for-atlantic-north-shopping-center

Hope it doesn't kill Regal Beach Boulevard.

A bit of a dump, but I like it.

[JaxJersey-licious]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/movie-theater-planned-for-atlantic-north-shopping-center

Hope it doesn't kill Regal Beach Boulevard.

A bit of a dump, but I like it.

I think the theaters planned in Durbin Park along with these new theaters will mark the death knell of that location of Regal Cinemas.

Speaking of which, I thought the guy behind Sun-Ray was looking at opening a location at the beach. Wonder what happened to those plans?

[copperfiend]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/movie-theater-planned-for-atlantic-north-shopping-center

Hope it doesn't kill Regal Beach Boulevard.

A bit of a dump, but I like it.

I am surprised it is still open

[Lostwave]

I just went there friday.  Not the best theater, but its not a dump either. 

[david-massett]

I can speak to Sun-Ray, and I love talking about film exhibition in Jacksonville in general so here you go:

Speaking of which, I thought the guy behind Sun-Ray was looking at opening a location at the beach. Wonder what happened to those plans?

We are actively looking for just the right site at the Beaches for a four to six screen theatre.  25,000 contiguous empty sf is hard to come by in this area; we've spoken with many developers anxious to squeeze us into a drastically smaller footprint, or properties that would have a structural beam in the middle of an auditorium, and we've declined because -- and I hope customers can attest to this -- if Sun-Ray's gonna do something we're gonna do it right.  We've spent seven years hamstrung by a building not designed for 21st century moviegoing, the last thing we want to do is to ask moviegoers to make concessions at a new location too. 

We've also spoken with the developers mentioned in this thread who tell us they would prefer a National Tenant vs. a homegrown brand.  I get what they're saying, and in Durbin Park's case it totally panned out because they are so far from a competitor.  But this Atlantic North deal?  We wish them the best, but it's hard to imagine that anyone other than AMC is making a $5 million investment in building a theatre four and a half miles from another AMC in a market of this size.  And why AMC wouldn't just build at, say, one of the St. John's County developments with whom we were in negotiations who also are so far from their competitors vs. doubling down/cannibalizing on this one little pocket is something that we wonder about.

Speaking of St. John's County, Tim  --  my other half and the "guy" to whom I presume you're referring -- spoke with a couple of other owners of smaller movie theatre chains.  They both said, of the negotiations that recently broke down between us and those Beaches-ish area developers, that they see all the time this snazzy trick where the exhibitor enters into an LOI on a property that big box theatre chains have passed on, the property owner than floats this trial balloon to the press that they have a movie theatre on board which helps with permitting and leasing up of surrounding properties due to the novelty of having a (yet unnamed) movie theatre signed on, and then the developer abruptly drops the theatre like a hot potato. 

One developer we were working with was straight up candid every step of the way about how having a theatre on the site plan fast tracked permitting with St. John's County, and that they had a higher than normal number of spaces leased because of the excitement about an independent theatre chain and then -- you guessed it -- potato time.  The narratives are so parallel, and negotiations went from "Your final lease is a week away," to "Sorry, it costs too much to build a movie theatre," faster than we could imagine.  Less than a day later another development in the area, who also has been telling the press they have a National Brand signed up, is suddenly interested in us too. 

So, long story short, between negotiating scammy looking folks using us for leverage and sites that just don't fit we have hit a lot of dead ends but are still absolutely, 100% moving forward with entering the Beaches market and providing customers with an experience that represents the very best Jacksonville has to offer.