Downtown Jax falls further behind

[BD51]

Vinik's new downtown hotel will help Tampa chase bigger conventions

The additional meeting space Jeff Vinik plans to build in his new hotel should make Tampa more competitive for landing major conventions — the kind that bring in more than 10,000 people who, city officials hope, will come to town ready to spend money on hotels, dining and shopping.

Vinik on Wednesday closed on the $150 million acquisition of the Tampa Marriott Waterside Hotel and Marina, and on Thursday received the approval of the full city council for a new hotel across the street from the Marriott. That hotel could have up to 400 rooms in as many as 25 stories and include 100,000 square feet of meeting space.

The new space is almost a 20 percent increase over the 600,000 square feet currently at the Tampa Convention Center, said Santiago Corrada, president and CEO of Visit Tampa Bay. The additional space — combined with the 50,000 square feet available at the Marriott — puts the city in the running for larger conventions and gives it the ability to host concurrent conventions, which it can't do now because of too few available meeting rooms, Corrada said.

The convention center generated 437,633 hotel room nights and an $248.7 million estimated economic impact in fiscal 2014, which ended Sept. 30, according to preliminary figures from Visit Tampa Bay, which will have final totals in the coming weeks.

Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2014/10/03/viniks-new-downtown-hotel-will-help-tampa-chase.html

[spuwho]

What are the current stats for Jacksonville?

[BD51]

If the city is truly serious about pumping additional energy and life into downtown, then building a new convention center on the St. Johns River should be top priority. Having lived in Harbour Island in downtown Tampa, I experienced first hand the activity that larger conventions bring to an area. I believe that downtown Jax is in the early stages of a credible upturn, primarily thanks to Shad Khan, but will never be a serious destination without a sizable convention center. Honestly, without their convention center, downtown Tampa would be just as lifeless as downtown Jax, even with destinations including the Florida Aquarium, Cruise ship terminals and the Amalie Arena for TB Lightning games/concerts. According to the article, comparable cities like Nashville and Charlotte are also light years away.

Wake up Jax and smell the (Maxwell House) coffee!

[JFman00]

The convention center market is over-saturated, but the race to keep building them bigger and better hasn't slowed.

I strongly disagree with prioritizing a new convention center with city money. Even with the assumption that money could be found to build it, it would almost certainly add another hole to the city budget (Mobile has floated tearing theirs down, Pensacola will probably throw several more million into theirs despite continued operating deficits, Savannah's also loses money).

The arguments for a convention center are so similar to sports arenas:

"Basketball arenas," Propheter concludes "are not primary catalysts of economic development but are instead economic complements. The present research is generally consistent with the notion that professional sports are not the cause of development so much as they are the effect."

I think Jax is better off staying out of the convention center arms race and focusing instead on building the foundations for downtown development via incentives for adaptive reuse of existing structures and small businesses as well as improving the legislative climate (form-based zoning, pedestrian-friendly streetscape policies). Not sexy and probably won't grab headlines, but much more cost-efficient and sustainable than giant capital projects.

[I-10east]

^^^I agree that convention centers aren't the end all be all.

[spuwho]

The article in the headline refers to meeting and hotel rooms to support a different kind of convention type, not a public convention center.

So if we are "behind"....how are we behind? We have a lot of hotels that serve niche meeting markets.  The meeting market for 5000 attendees and above is massively saturated across the US.

As noted, many cities have these public monuments to the convention industry but had no hotel support behind it and so they are dying. Those hotels have to have paying customers 300 days a year, not for the 5 events a year business.

If Jacksonville wants to pursue the meetings market, it should be done organically. Besides, Bed Tax dollars are committed to the stadium now.

[thelakelander]

What are the current stats for Jacksonville?

The Prime Osborn is 265,000 square feet. The exhibition hall is 78,500 square feet. Tampa's convention center is 600,000 square feet with a 200,000 square feet exhibition hall.

[MusicMan]

A convention center in Downtown is laughable as downtown currently stands. There are two hotels there for Gods sake. Besides attend the convention what else is there to do downtown? Not a damn thing. If all the projects on the table now were finished then you could start to consider it. Until then, don't hold your breath.

[ProjectMaximus]

This is one issue I've not taken a stand on throughout the past several years of debate. On the one hand, a convention center on the riverfront would simply be cool, and it would also allow the Prime Osborne to go back to being a transportation center anchored by rail. That's the best part. On the other hand, I always got the argument that it could be a failure and major waste of money. But I was hung up on whether the risk was worth the reward.

I'm starting to come around now, though, to accepting that this is an arms race that Jax can't afford to join right now. I do think that someday a major convention center might be needed, but I don't think we need it to create that kind of city. As Lake said, let it happen organically. We can't expect the convention business to spur the development of a world class downtown...we should create the best downtown we can have and see where it takes us. As for getting out of the Prime Osborne then...perhaps the best bet is for a smaller multi-purpose center that, combined with the Hyatt, can serve these niche conventions/conferences.

[Ocklawaha]

What are the current stats for Jacksonville?

3- gun shows
2- home and garden shows
A black expo
and
A boat show!

85,000 sq ft of far too small convention center and just right train/bus station
+
3 solvent downtown hotels
+
A landing that smells of piss!

[BD51]

A convention center in Downtown is laughable as downtown currently stands. There are two hotels there for Gods sake. Besides attend the convention what else is there to do downtown? Not a damn thing. If all the projects on the table now were finished then you could start to consider it. Until then, don't hold your breath.

So the city should wait until it has a few more full-service hotels downtown? What will spur that development? FL Country Superfest, Welcome to Rockville, FL-GA game, Gator Bowl, proposed USS Adams maritime museum? Don't get me wrong, these are all great, but they will never make downtown Jax a destination.

[BD51]

As noted, many cities have these public monuments to the convention industry but had no hotel support behind it and so they are dying. Those hotels have to have paying customers 300 days a year, not for the 5 events a year business.

Tampa's convention center didn't generate nearly 450,000 hotel room nights last fiscal year, (roughly equivalent to filling the Hyatt and Omni every night), by hosting just 5 events.

[thelakelander]

A convention center in Downtown is laughable as downtown currently stands. There are two hotels there for Gods sake. Besides attend the convention what else is there to do downtown? Not a damn thing. If all the projects on the table now were finished then you could start to consider it. Until then, don't hold your breath.

So the city should wait until it has a few more full-service hotels downtown? What will spur that development? FL Country Superfest, Welcome to Rockville, FL-GA game, Gator Bowl, proposed USS Adams maritime museum? Don't get me wrong, these are all great, but they will never make downtown Jax a destination.

^Good point. None of those things are going to "make" downtown a "destination". Most major cities have comparable events, museums, and more. A new convention center won't either. But none of these things should be expected too.

I'm not as down on a new convention center as many.  If it were between the scoreboards and convention center (funding wise, it was), I'd go convention center because of the indirect livability options and economic opportunities it facilitates with the Jacksonville Terminal, Northbank Riverfront, Hyatt, Jax Landing, Courthouse Annex, and East Bay Street bars/restaurants, etc. The correct placement of clustering complementing uses, within a compact pedestrian setting is the key to downtown vibrancy. Moving the convention center to the courthouse site, enhancing the viability of the Hyatt, the Elbow, Landing, etc. advances the concept of the "three C's".

So, I think this is one of those issues where we have to balance expense/size verses goals for making the expense.  If the goal is to be a top convention destination in the US and for the center to be an immediate direct money maker, then that's a losing battle. Same goes for public investments on transit, in libraries, parks, cycle tracks, streetscapes, schools, etc.  If the goal is to create a downtown environment that includes correct and coordinated placement of uses and investments that actually works and helps stimulate additional economic opportunity and traffic flow, then that's another discussion altogether.

[BD51]

I strongly disagree with prioritizing a new convention center with city money. Even with the assumption that money could be found to build it, it would almost certainly add another hole to the city budget (Mobile has floated tearing theirs down, Pensacola will probably throw several more million into theirs despite continued operating deficits, Savannah's also loses money).

I don't think using Mobile, Pensacola or Savannah are fair comparisons. Particularly a 50 year old structure in a metro less than one-third the population of Jax. How about using Tampa, Nashville, Charlotte, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, all with Major League franchises and focused on making downtown a destination.

[Jaxson]

A convention center in Downtown is laughable as downtown currently stands. There are two hotels there for Gods sake. Besides attend the convention what else is there to do downtown? Not a damn thing. If all the projects on the table now were finished then you could start to consider it. Until then, don't hold your breath.

I have to agree.  I have been to cities like San Diego, Philadelphia, Boston and Atlanta for conventions.  There is more to hosting a convention than just the convention center.  I have noticed that convention cities like the ones that I mentioned are very appealing to convention attendees with restaurants, retail and entertainment options within walking distance of their convention venues and lodging.  In my opinion, it helps to have a vibrant city center as I did not mind walking around Philadelphia or Boston in all hours of the day because they did not shut down after 5PM...