Downtown Jax falls further behind

[thelakelander]

Hmm, 16 years later and Interstate's reasons for backing out have turned out to be true..

It's easy to understand why Interstate, based in Pittsburgh, is having second thoughts.

The Adam's Mark Hotel, planned for property now occupied by the old City Hall parking lot and the vacant Daniel State Office Building, would have 950 rooms with tons of meeting, banquet and exhibition space.

And, as described to the JEDC and DDA yesterday, the $126 million, 17-story hotel would be first-class with majestic river views, fancy restaurants and upscale shops, not to mention a rooftop swimming pool and health club.

It would dwarf the Mariott. Interstate had planned a $52 million hotel with 400 rooms.

Interstate told city officials Wednesday the addition of a huge Adam's Mark Hotel to the market would change the projections it used to determine whether its hotel would be financially feasible.

The suspicion is that Jacksonville couldn't support the sudden addition of 1,400 rooms downtown.

Interstate's basic message was: Build Adam's Mark and we won't come.

For his part, Clarkson is supportive of the Adam's Mark project even though it could kill the hotel he's been trying to get built for more than a decade.

He said last week that as a long-time advocate of downtown, he had to favor a project that could finally turn downtown into a center for activity day and night.

If the Interstate deal falls through, it could further damage the viability of the Prime Osborn as a convention center.

If the Adam's Mark is built, it would have the advantage of being able to provide convention space surrounded by 950 guest rooms.

It's unlikely that Jacksonville could support two convention centers, especially one that had no hotel rooms near it.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042498/opl_frioppag.html

Btw, what happened to the fancy shops and restaurants?

[BD51]

ENID OK


Grand Rapids MI


Sioux Falls SD


Riverside CA


Las Cruces NM

I can't see myself excited to be attending a convention at any of these locations, except Riverside CA, during the winter months. I agree, Jax has so much to offer, but many locals don't see it.

[Tacachale]

Yes, I know a bit about the Adam's Mark. Basically, there were two bids for downtown hotels at the same time. Let's put it this way: Adam's Mark requested $20 million in incentives for $126 million, 950 room hotel in the heart of the Downtown riverfront. Bucky Clarkson requested nearly the same amount ($17 million I believe) for a $52 million (!), 400 room hotel that wasn't near anything (he billed it as a "convention hotel", but it was a good 2 blocks from the convention center).

There were also questions about the wisdom of incentivizing a hotel way out there when there was the prospect of eventually moving the Convention Center, and it turned out Clarkson had a tendency to... exaggerate the prospects of his bid. The stronger bid got the incentives and broke ground. Clarkson spent the next several years trying to torpedo the other project and doing nothing with the land. The funny thing is that the city probably would have awarded Clarkson some incentives too (though $17 million was ridiculous), but he made himself such a thorn in everyone's side that no one wanted to deal with him.

[thelakelander]

Many events are held by local industries and organizations.  Not every event is all about pulling in tourist from other areas.  I've been to Grand Rapids a few times.  It's a surprising Midwestern city with a downtown that is more vibrant than Jacksonville's. Overall, it appeared that not as much urban renewal had taken place in its urban core and it blended in seamlessly with Riverside/Avondale type urban neighborhoods just to the east of it.

Some pics from my 2008 visit:




Grand Valley State University opened an urban branch campus in downtown Grand Rapids in the 1990s. The campus has grown and now includes on-campus housing.

In 2008, it appeared that Grand Rapids had been pretty successful in attracting residential development back to the core:











Jax is finally getting a couple of roof top bars.  Grand Rapids already had a few in 2008: