The Jacksonville Landing: What Should It Be?

[JC]

There must be apartments and condos. More working people needs to live downtown in order to make it work.

[ronchamblin]

If they keep the Landing intact, the y could still open it up to Laura Street. Just open underneath and still leave the roof as is. So those traveling down Laura could see the river and vice versa, but we wouldn't lose that overhead view over the orange half circle roof and sign that we've all come to know.

Might be a good option exnewsman.   

In my opinion, the most efficient way to open up the center of the Landing, perhaps to a width of forty feet, is to convince the local naval war chief to assign one of the attack aircraft ... one of the few remaining with the 20 mm cannon ... to strafe the landing, attacking it from the north.  The pilot could line up on Laura, strafing the middle.  If forty feet cannot be achieved with one pass,  a second should.

To prevent collateral injury or death, as is always our military's objective, the river must be cleared ... and Laura cleared from Adams south, just in case the pilot fired early.  The attack would require the fire department standby to extinguish fires along the edges ... which could be renovated properly following bids when the dust settles.

Yes, I've always thought the Landing was a little claustrophobic.  Its much like being trapped in a valley in the North Carolina mountains wherein one can see only perhaps a quarter mile in any direction ... stifling the view, and perhaps the spirit.  I prefer to be on an upper range, where I can see for miles, and miles, and miles.

[Ocklawaha]

I've got the PERFECT redevelopment idea for the site!



Ain't it beautiful?

[Sunbeam]

Do you all remember the unfinished apartments on the other side of the old courthouse? The ones where the garage collapsed? Name escapes me but they recently came out of litigation and are up for sale. If there is no sale the owner will finish developing them himself so there will be apartments/condo's there.

Then the Laura St. Trio is being developed which will include apartments/condo's

So slieman in his ignorant wisdom wants to directly compete with these other places which defeats the purpose of something new for buyers as there is not that big of a market for such.

Slieman pays a pittance to lease the land under the Landing. Land that is prime riverfront property that is very valuable of which slieman makes a pretty penny to use at our expense.

To me the city itself has no business getting into the retail and apartment business

And ask yourselves WHY is slieman ridding all public access from the river to OUR public land?

Do you all really condone that idea?

[thelakelander]

The proposed plan actually increases public access along the river from 20,000 square-feet to almost 89,000 square-feet.

[Sunbeam]

Where are the piers? Where does the water taxi pick up and let people off? Are there any ramps for the public to launch kayaks or paddle boards?

[thelakelander]

The floating docks run parallel to the riverwalk in the rendering.  In the rendering, the docks are white and riverwalk is gray.

[downtownbrown]

Do you all remember the unfinished apartments on the other side of the old courthouse? The ones where the garage collapsed? Name escapes me but they recently came out of litigation and are up for sale. If there is no sale the owner will finish developing them himself so there will be apartments/condo's there.

That's Berkman 2.  Yes, a new developer is working with the new owner (Choate Construction), and negotiations are ongoing with the DIA.  I understand that the City Council is eager to get approved plans moving.  I don't know what the hold up is.  Maybe the DIA is waiting to see what Mr. Khan has in mind.

[JimInJax]

Sunbeam, I think you have it just about right. IMO - Develop the Shipyards with attractions/bars/restaurants and then let the Landing die. The Shipyards are a way better location as it protrudes out on to the water giving better views to more people. Sleiman will do whatever will make him the most money - he has already proven that. He could care less what downtown becomes - he doesn't live there, his office is in Southpoint, so he doesn't go there unless he has to. As for his "eye" I offer this from his own website:




Please tell me what is attractive and different about that?

[thelakelander]

Sunbeam, I think you have it just about right. IMO - Develop the Shipyards with attractions/bars/restaurants and then let the Landing die. The Shipyards are a way better location as it protrudes out on to the water giving better views to more people.

That's a sure fire way to kill the Northbank.  The Shipyards is located a mile east of the core of downtown and boxed in to the north by the county jail and a coffee roasting industrial complex.  The spill over economic potential is virtually zero. At the end of the day, vibrancy is about clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting.  Spreading complementing uses too far apart is only a microcosm of the unsustainable land development pattern this region has been subsidizing since WWII.

[KenFSU]

Sunbeam, I think you have it just about right. IMO - Develop the Shipyards with attractions/bars/restaurants and then let the Landing die. The Shipyards are a way better location as it protrudes out on to the water giving better views to more people. Sleiman will do whatever will make him the most money - he has already proven that. He could care less what downtown becomes - he doesn't live there, his office is in Southpoint, so he doesn't go there unless he has to.

^ The Shipyards might offer more waterfront access to the public, but the Landing is a much more strategically important piece of property. It's at the foot of the Main Street Bridge, adjacent to the T-U Center, and just blocks from the Main Library, the Laura Street Trio, Hemming Park, the Florida Theater, all of the northbank's major office towers, a Skyway station, etc. The Shipyards might as well be ten miles away. Sacrificing the Landing in favor of the Shipyards would equal one step forward and two steps back for overall downtown development.

[downtownbrown]

I agree that the Landing is a better focal point, but I wish people would stop saying that the Shipyards is far, far away.  It's an easy mosy connected by the Riverwalk.  The Landing just isn't big enough to think of it as the only solution for the Core. 

[thelakelander]

There is no one solution for the core when it comes to investing. Streetcar, Landing, Shipyards, an aquarium, Rummell's Healthy Town, Laura Trio, etc. None of these things are going to turnaround downtown by themselves. However, the dominant concept that should be carried out if we want vibrancy sooner, rather than decades later is to cluster, complementing uses together within a compact pedestrian scale setting.  This means, it's actually sound strategy to improve places in close proximity like the Trio, Hemming, and the Landing simultaneously as opposed to spreading limited resources all over the place. The combined resulting foot traffic and activity would then create additional economic opportunity for the spaces adjacent to them.

As for the Shipyards serving as a one-trick revitalization pony, I can't stress enough the importance of packing a limited amount of land area with a mix of complementing land uses. Look at any vibrant downtown and compare them to Jax, 9 times out of 10, you'll find most of their core activity taking place within an amount of land that would only stretch between the Acosta and Hyatt hotel.

Just take a look at the Baltimore Inner Harbor and Chattanooga Riverfront examples below:


Baltimore Inner Harbor





Chattanooga Riverfront




When we start talking about the Shipyards or JEA generation sites as some sort of epicenter of downtown development ("at the expense" of downtown's core, etc.), we really need to discuss how to better link them with downtown via reliable and efficient transit. I say this because they really are outside or on the fringe of the historic walkable downtown core.

While they can become great sites of activity, due to their location, there's not going to be much opportunity in them spurring ancillary pedestrian scale development on the properties surrounding them. So if the goal is downtown vibrancy, we're going to have to properly address the heart of downtown, regardless of what happens with these peripheral industrial brownfield sites.

[KenFSU]

The below quote, from the Social Life of Small Urban Spaces (1980), seems rather relevant to the Shipyards topic (and quite prescient too):

[tufsu1]

He could care less what downtown becomes - he doesn't live there, his office is in Southpoint, so he doesn't go there unless he has to.

Actually, you can find Tony at the Landing almost every day of the week...and most weekends.