Jacksonville Food Trucks: New Legislation is Needed

[strider]

I refrained from commenting this long because it's silly arguing with people that, given the opportunity, did not get involved... yet tell you exactly how wrong you are.

Planning, GC, EOC, Neigborhoods, Code Compliance, DIA and City Council intrepret it the way I wrote. That's also backed up with exhaustive public records on the matter as every task force meeting was recorded and catalogued... along with every CC committee meeting when the bill was introduced, debated and ultimately passed by the full City Council.

BTW, a former two-time City Council president was retained to lobby in favor of the food trucks and help craft the bill.

Here's what you need to do.  See that the original language was stated exactly the way it is now.  Then look at the amendments. They went through the trouble to clarify the Downtown language but left the statement in question alone even though the language is at the very least poorly done such that it says the opposite of what most wish to believe it does.  Break down the sentence just like you would have in school.  It does not say an exception is NOT needed everywhere but CN, it says an exception is needed everywhere but CN.  I would quickly agree that it was a mistake, but then they clarified the Downtown stuff and left this one alone.  Either everyone involved needs to learn how to make a sentence again, including Ms Shaw, or it was done at someone's request and it is what they wanted.

Here's the thing.  Regardless of being done purposefully or not, it is what it is.  If a truck is parked in CRO-S and no one complains, then it will all be good. If the right person gets a bad meal, how long before that truck is told to leave because the property owner did not get an exception?  If nothing else, the badly written sentence allows for very selective enforcement. And what if someone decides they want a food truck on their CN land?  The city could be forced to enforce the ordinance as written. All over Jax in that case. At this point, even if they call it a scriveners error of some type it takes a new ordinance moving through Council to fix it.

Like the recent blight bill where multiple council members said it was not going to effect historic structures but then it really was after all and it was obviously done on purpose, I get suspicious of anyone speaking the opposite of what is actually written.  Interpretations can be changed on a whim and often are for the right people.

[TheCat]

Part of this problem was the food trucks pulling a "Jews for Hitler!" move and supporting the legislation that will ultimately drive most of them out of business. Whether it was misrepresented to them, or council backstabbed them, or whatever the heck else may have happened, who knows, but I don't think it's going to take long for them to regret it. What ultimately got enacted was not far off from the legislation all the original uproar was about, except it wound up passing because it appeared at least superficially that the trucks supported it. Bizarre.

I think part of what happened was the same thing that happens with every Jacksonville business niche. Food trucks wanted to control their niche.

From what I can gather some food truckers were afraid of a few food trucks messing it up for everyone...so they were willing to acquiesce where they didn't need to. Established food truckers don't want to see renegade food trucks come about that don't follow their industry's unwritten rules of engagement. If that is the case, I think it is a mistake. Food truckers should be advocating and "paving" the way for a vibrant street food scene. 

In the same way that restaurants don't want a food truck next to their front doors a food truck doesn't want another food truck parked next to them when it's just a passing lunch crowd they are targeting.

[fieldafm]

In the same way that restaurants don't want a food truck next to their front doors a food truck doesn't want another food truck parked next to them when it's just a passing lunch crowd they are targeting.

This conversation is so far off reality. Amazing how history is being re-written by people that didn't even participate in very public and open proceedings.

[TheCat]

In the same way that restaurants don't want a food truck next to their front doors a food truck doesn't want another food truck parked next to them when it's just a passing lunch crowd they are targeting.

This conversation is so far off reality. Amazing how history is being re-written by people that didn't even participate in very public and open proceedings.

I hope it is far off of realty.

[strider]

This conversation is so far off reality. Amazing how history is being re-written by people that didn't even participate in very public and open proceedings.

Just so you know, I have survived a community enforcing a incorrectly written ordinance to try to shut down a bunch of legal businesses just because a few people did not like them. A scriveners error was made in the final version of the overlay when it was enacted.  The meeting minutes said it was one thing but the actual passed ordinance said something else.  It was "interpreted" the way the minutes said for years.  Then someone in the community decided a group of business should no longer be in Springfield  and realized the error and insisted that the ordinance be enforced as written.  The city responded by writing up an ordinance to fix the scriveners error.  When the ordinance hit City Council, it cost me 1 1/2 years of my time to fight the amended one that tried to make the error permanent and put 200 disabled people out of their homes.  So do not try to say I do not know what I am talking about.  This food truck ordinance is badly done and makes the plight of the food trucks subject to the whims of whomever decides they do not like them. And that is assuming that the requirement of getting an exception in all zoning codes but CN was an error.  Look out if it was done purposefully by someone in that proverbial smoke filled room.

[Noone]

I refrained from commenting this long because it's silly arguing with people that, given the opportunity, did not get involved... yet tell you exactly how wrong you are.

Planning, GC, EOC, Neigborhoods, Code Compliance, DIA and City Council intrepret it the way I wrote. That's also backed up with exhaustive public records on the matter as every task force meeting was recorded and catalogued... along with every CC committee meeting when the bill was introduced, debated and ultimately passed by the full City Council.

BTW, a former two-time City Council president was retained to lobby in favor of the food trucks and help craft the bill.

Here's what you need to do.  See that the original language was stated exactly the way it is now.  Then look at the amendments. They went through the trouble to clarify the Downtown language but left the statement in question alone even though the language is at the very least poorly done such that it says the opposite of what most wish to believe it does.  Break down the sentence just like you would have in school.  It does not say an exception is NOT needed everywhere but CN, it says an exception is needed everywhere but CN.  I would quickly agree that it was a mistake, but then they clarified the Downtown stuff and left this one alone.  Either everyone involved needs to learn how to make a sentence again, including Ms Shaw, or it was done at someone's request and it is what they wanted.

Here's the thing.  Regardless of being done purposefully or not, it is what it is.  If a truck is parked in CRO-S and no one complains, then it will all be good. If the right person gets a bad meal, how long before that truck is told to leave because the property owner did not get an exception?  If nothing else, the badly written sentence allows for very selective enforcement. And what if someone decides they want a food truck on their CN land?  The city could be forced to enforce the ordinance as written. All over Jax in that case. At this point, even if they call it a scriveners error of some type it takes a new ordinance moving through Council to fix it.

Like the recent blight bill where multiple council members said it was not going to effect historic structures but then it really was after all and it was obviously done on purpose, I get suspicious of anyone speaking the opposite of what is actually written.  Interpretations can be changed on a whim and often are for the right people.

+1
Watch how this applies to the Waterways!
2014-305
2014-190
2014-412-Withdrawn
2014-560
2013-384-Withdrawn

There are a dozen more. The Public Trust just destroyed when it comes to the Waterways.
Palms Fish Camp- Sign me up! Anyone put me on any list because this is happening again.
Put me down as a taxpayer subsidized millionaire that lives out of county.


Visit Jacksonville!

[ChriswUfGator]

Part of this problem was the food trucks pulling a "Jews for Hitler!" move and supporting the legislation that will ultimately drive most of them out of business.

really bad analogy dude

Yes, really bad.

Except that's a real thing, not fiction, fellas. It actually happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews

Clearly some people around here could stand to learn from the historical lesson.

And pardon me, but the analogy seems spot-on.

[ChriswUfGator]

In the same way that restaurants don't want a food truck next to their front doors a food truck doesn't want another food truck parked next to them when it's just a passing lunch crowd they are targeting.

This conversation is so far off reality. Amazing how history is being re-written by people that didn't even participate in very public and open proceedings.

That doesn't mean we can't read the ordinance for ourselves, Field.

This isn't really subject to debate, it says what it says, in black and white. The difference between you and me, and you and Strider for that matter, is that I know better than to care about whatever COJ says their intent was. None of that is going to matter, at the end of the day you're stuck with what's reduced to writing.

[RyeRyeRocco]

FTR: I am a hippie
2xFTR: I own no KLoB sticker

And another thing: KLoB's sax player is a buddy of mine

[TheCat]

So, how is the food truck industry doing in Jacksonville?

I don't really see them around anymore and there's definitely less buzz. Is it just me? Is anyone else seeing them around? Are there more popping up? or, are more dying down?

From my vantage point the legislation seems to have done its job to ensure the downtown quizno's never closes. 

[thelakelander]

From what I can tell, there's more food trucks than ever. You can get daily updates on their locations here: https://www.facebook.com/jaxtruckies

[fieldafm]

There are more food trucks than ever in Jax. About a dozen more have opened in the 1st quarter of 2015.

There are seven places trucks setup downtown (eight if you consider Brooklyn as being downtown), including the JSO headquarters.

[IrvAdams]

^^ Absolutely. There's no question that food trucks are quite prevalent, and of high quality, and are to be found most everywhere in the city. I'm quite pleased with the way it has gone since the beginnings of the organizational push to encourage these entrepreneurs.

Rock on, food trucks!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I don't really see them around anymore and there's definitely less buzz. Is it just me?

Yes, lol. 

When food trucks becomes part of your regular routine, I guess there's about as much buzz generated as going anywhere else to eat.

[TheCat]

There are more food trucks than ever in Jax. About a dozen more have opened in the 1st quarter of 2015.

There are seven places trucks setup downtown (eight if you consider Brooklyn as being downtown), including the JSO headquarters.

that's great.

Are you keeping track of trucks that have launched (or closed) ? Those would be interesting numbers to see if you have them on hand.

what are your thoughts, eight months later, on the legislation that passed back in September 2014?