Jacksonville Food Trucks: New Legislation is Needed

[Noone]

Ron- anytime a city regulates business, that's bad for business.

I have to work today, but for now ... until insomnia strikes at 2:00 a.m., I will only suggest that the statement ... "Anytime a city regulates business, that's bad for business." ... is not a true statement.  There are indeed occasions when a city should ... must ... regulate. 

Forgive me please for my opinion, as it is not aligned with yours.  Our freedom to express our opinions on MJ is why I enjoy MJ ... and why it is such a wonderful platform for discussion in our city.

The same can be said of the Waterways in our Downtown.  Does anyone else feel sorry for the Baltimore guys? Love MJ.

[strider]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

You're correct, this city is brutal for small business. Odd for a mayor who constantly preaches job growth and small government...

The contention that this city is "brutal for small business" is interesting. 

The other suggestion that "this city is bad for small business" is also interesting. 

The latter obviously refers to the FT issue.  Leaving the FT issue aside, would you suggest that the "city is bad for small business"?  If so, how so?  Of course, it is possible that, outside of the FT issue, you might not believe the general statement about this city is true ... which is understandable.

My reason for asking is that I've been in business in this city for almost forty years and cannot remember any condition or requirement from the city that would cause me to make the general statement ... "this city is bad for small business".       

It is not so much that the city itself is "brutal" or "bad" for small business, but it is certainly prone to side with big business or any business or special interest that can feed the political machine enough to gain favoritism.  The disregard for the required transparency in our city government, the disregard for the very rights of it's citizens when it is more convenient for the city to do so or the city is asked to do so by a special interest,  the unethical way it writes it's laws and presents them as seen recently in the Blight Ordinance and the Food Truck ordinance; all of these things do not make Jacksonville friendly to small business but rather only those with money or power. Or who are quick to adopt that established "Company Line".

When our elected politicians have laws written that say the opposite of what they state for the record, when the City claims to be all inclusive and yet sides consistently with those that discriminate; maybe the right way to say it is not that the city is bad for small business, it is more appropriate to say it is just bad.

As to whether the city should or should not regulate a business type?  Regulation is seen as a requirement to insure fairness and ethical behavior.  However, once a city gives in to special interests and ethics and fairness are no longer the goal, then perhaps the city itself has given up the right to regulate that business in any way.

In this case, I suspect that the food trucks thought they were going to be able to operate in sensible areas of the city and compete with each other and also other types of food service providers in a fair and ethical way. As it turns out, they were fooled and they got, for the most part, the opposite of fair.  I, for one, believe the city, by this behavior, gave up it's right to regulate the food trucks in any way, short of true public safety/ health concerns of course.  How to fix this issue is the big problem now.  I suppose that the ordinance will just often not be enforced so that food trucks will remain in some of the areas they are now.  However, if the right person makes a complaint, look for the ordinance to be fully enforced and you may be saying goodbye to your favorite food truck location.  Perhaps a smart individual will create food truck parking zones in various areas with CN zoning or even go ahead and get that exception if they can. What I have trouble believing is the our city will care enough to fix it.

[sheclown]

something stinks and it ain't the cabbage

[urbanlibertarian]

This bill is anti-consumer.  They are taking choices away from us.  Competition is the consumers friend.  It improves quality and lowers price.  Businesses that cannot exist and compete without regulation should fail.  That's the beauty of a free market.

[Ocklawaha]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

You're correct, this city is brutal for small business. Odd for a mayor who constantly preaches job growth and small government...

The contention that this city is "brutal for small business" is interesting. 

The other suggestion that "this city is bad for small business" is also interesting. 

The latter obviously refers to the FT issue.  Leaving the FT issue aside, would you suggest that the "city is bad for small business"?  If so, how so?  Of course, it is possible that, outside of the FT issue, you might not believe the general statement about this city is true ... which is understandable.

My reason for asking is that I've been in business in this city for almost forty years and cannot remember any condition or requirement from the city that would cause me to make the general statement ... "this city is bad for small business".     

Friend Ron, I'm sure that in the case of your business and experience this is true, but let us never forget that this is the same city council that waved its hand over the crowd in the mobility plan hearings and said, 'You don't have to listen to this noise!'

[TheCat]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

Do you know why the leader of the JFT and it seems, many other food truck owners, deemed this legislation a success?

It seems fairly clear to me that the legislation was bad for the industry...and there was zero to little uproar about the legislation from food truck owners when it was submitted. The "silence was deafening".

[sheclown]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

Do you know why the leader of the JFT and it seems, many other food truck owners, deemed this legislation a success?

It seems fairly clear to me that the legislation was bad for the industry...and there was zero to little uproar about the legislation from food truck owners when it was submitted. The "silence was deafening".

Oh...you ALWAYS have a voice. 

[ronchamblin]

Quote: Ocklawaha

"Friend Ron, I'm sure that in the case of your business and experience this is true, but let us never forget that this is the same city council that waved its hand over the crowd in the mobility plan hearings and said, 'You don't have to listen to this noise!' "

Good point. Although I personally have never been abused or unfairly "regulated" by any city entities ...  given the reality of your mention above, I must admit that there is the occasional event of excessive regulation or unfairness via the city.  This is of course, unfortunate for those who are the victims. 

[RyeRyeRocco]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

Do you know why the leader of the JFT and it seems, many other food truck owners, deemed this legislation a success?

It seems fairly clear to me that the legislation was bad for the industry...and there was zero to little uproar about the legislation from food truck owners when it was submitted. The "silence was deafening".

I do know the folks that run the JFT and I feel that they misrepresent most trucks. Some of their business practices are a little questionable. I can say for my truck, the legislation is ok. It's not good. The thing that most truck owners don't get is that once this ordinance passes it will take forever to change it in anyway.
I wish the dialogue between the city (Brown) and the trucks (JFT) was more than just those two. The city should be listening to all the trucks. If Quiznos and Subway could generate this much bark, I'm sure 80 business owners could too. Councilman Brown seems to listen to only the JFT folks. And that sucks for us.

[TheCat]

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

Do you know why the leader of the JFT and it seems, many other food truck owners, deemed this legislation a success?

It seems fairly clear to me that the legislation was bad for the industry...and there was zero to little uproar about the legislation from food truck owners when it was submitted. The "silence was deafening".

I do know the folks that run the JFT and I feel that they misrepresent most trucks. Some of their business practices are a little questionable. I can say for my truck, the legislation is ok. It's not good. The thing that most truck owners don't get is that once this ordinance passes it will take forever to change it in anyway.
I wish the dialogue between the city (Brown) and the trucks (JFT) was more than just those two. The city should be listening to all the trucks. If Quiznos and Subway could generate this much bark, I'm sure 80 business owners could too. Councilman Brown seems to listen to only the JFT folks. And that sucks for us.

I appreciate your insight and explanations. Thanks for your openness.

This situation could have been completely different. The first round of legislation from Brown was met with huge community concern...mostly because the food truckers spread the word. Even Jax truckies was silent on the matter this time around.

I don't know anything about JFT but I suspect if the other 60 trucks that were not a part of the organization spoke up this could have been stopped.

My hope is that the loop holes in this legislation will be immediately exploited. I'm still trying to figure out how the ice cream truck codes match up with the food truck legislation. Either, ice cream trucks can't go into residential neighborhoods or food trucks can (as long as they are selling a dairy item).


And, to reiterate Stephendare's point about food delivery vehicles...either food trucks have the same "rights" as a pizza delivery car or even a catering van or, papa johns can't really do business downtown (or anywhere, really). Every home needs a zoning exception to have pizza delivered to their front door.

I think the legislation technically outlaws food delivery.

[thelakelander]

^Have you spoken with the group of food truck owners who worked with the city on this piece of legislation? What's their take?

As a food truck owner, I attended some of these meetings. Now that the council has the draft, they are adding to it. The trucks no longer have a voice and if they do it's the leader of the JFT. A pay for play outfit that says it represents all trucks, but doesn't. (Different story for a different time). Jacksonville will protect the rights of B&Ms until they are blue in the face. We will never lead the way. This city is bad for small business. We are penalized because our business is on wheels.

Do you know why the leader of the JFT and it seems, many other food truck owners, deemed this legislation a success?

It seems fairly clear to me that the legislation was bad for the industry...and there was zero to little uproar about the legislation from food truck owners when it was submitted. The "silence was deafening".

I do know the folks that run the JFT and I feel that they misrepresent most trucks. Some of their business practices are a little questionable. I can say for my truck, the legislation is ok. It's not good. The thing that most truck owners don't get is that once this ordinance passes it will take forever to change it in anyway.
I wish the dialogue between the city (Brown) and the trucks (JFT) was more than just those two. The city should be listening to all the trucks. If Quiznos and Subway could generate this much bark, I'm sure 80 business owners could too. Councilman Brown seems to listen to only the JFT folks. And that sucks for us.

I appreciate your insight and explanations. Thanks for your openness.

This situation could have been completely different. The first round of legislation from Brown was met with huge community concern...mostly because the food truckers spread the word. Even Jax truckies was silent on the matter this time around.

I don't know anything about JFT but I suspect if the other 60 trucks that were not a part of the organization spoke up this could have been stopped.

I suspect that there was no loud roar of opposition because the creation of the legislation was not done in the dark.  The first round was also met with huge community concern because Metro Jacksonville helped spread the word. However, at those meetings many in the food truck industry agreed that some sort of rules/guidelines/structure, whatever, etc. were needed and desired to work to help craft a modified legislation.   

Being successful with radically altering or sinking bad/poor proposed legislation in city hall personally, strategically speaking, that would have been the best time for someone looking to blow up the process completely, to get involved and poison the ground water.  As I recall, anyone who volunteered to participate in the process was given that opportunity. Also, in the future, I hope that we can continue to grow in the evolution of our own content and investigative reporting in a way that we can follow, report, and provide updates on hyperlocal public policy issues like this on a daily basis. That's probably my main goal for the future of the Metro Jacksonville because it's something that local media will never be able to achieve and if done right, can incrementally change the face of Jacksonville.

Anyway, I'd be interested to know how this legislation compares with those in peer cities with vibrant food truck scenes. It would also be interesting to get the perspective of the volunteers that did represent the food trucks in the creation of this modified legislation that appears to be going through council at the moment. With such information, a clear path on how to best move forward will materialize.

[strider]

"that appears to be going through council at the moment"

I'm a bit confused.  The legislation (2014 - 472) is now labeled as "enacted".  Does that not mean that is has been voted on and passed by City Council and so is now only awaiting the Mayor's signature or lack of it to be law? 

[RyeRyeRocco]

@Lakelander

This whole line of reform/legislation came when Councilman Brown saw a beat up truck on cinder blocks selling food in a front yard in his district. Then Jax Bch studied 26 or so cities to compare/contrast best practices. Councilman Brown was appalled that the CoJ had no legislation in place. To me, I find it very funny that Councilman Brown and Redman BOTH do not know the legality of food trucks but yet never approached the truck on cinder blocks and never called enforcement to ask about "is this truck legal?"

I was at the first 2 committee hearings and I was on business for the 3rd. The legislation that WE all put together was a step in the right direction. Councilman Brown was always in a rush "to get through this." I guess now I see why. It seems that the proposed bill keeps changing every time it goes before a different committee. Cherry Shaw is really the only person that will answer the trucks in a quick fashion. Councilman Brown; I believe, has written us off and now only speaks with one particular truck owner (my perspective). 

I personally would like to see change in City Council. A younger, more vibrant council might help craft a younger, vibrant city.

And why does the bill for food trucks need 3 different sections? Special Events, Downtown and Other. I don't operate downtown because it is such a pain in the ass. I only do ArtWalk, Jaxons Night Market and Food Truck Championships. That is when the city seems to not care so much about trucks because then the city decides to understand the 4 restaurants in the core can't feed all of the people that come downtown (sarcasm).  I said this at meetings and I will say this until I am blue in the Fu&^ing face.....if a Starbucks can open up next to a Panera, why can the trucks not roam free?

I run a coffee truck, would I setup on SBux property? No. Why? I am not dumb. All of those loyal drones would walk right into that SBux and right past me. At the end of the day, this is free enterprise. Let us freely go where we need too. If I want to feed a meter DT then I should be able too. If I have the permission of Tony Sleiman to setup on a property that he owns within 50 foot of another established coffee shop, I should be able too. He is the land owner and he should be able to do whatever the zoning will let him do.

I could go on and on. At the end of the day, the consumer will choose between truck or B&M. Just like at a rally, the consumer chooses which truck out of 10 to go too.

[jaxcpa]

The legislation was passed 8/27 with 17 ayes: Anderson, Bishop, Boyer, Carter, Clark, Crescimbeni, Gaffney, Gulliford, Holt, Jones, Joost, Lee, Love, Lumb, Redman, Schellenberg, Yarborough and no nayes.

[Charles Hunter]

Any chance one of those "ayes" could be persuaded to "move to reconsider"?