Folio's counter to EverBank and Shad Khan

[copperfiend]

First, the tax belongs to us. It can be used for whatever we deem to be a touristy sort of thing. It was said in a another thread that if we wanted to create the world's best library system in order bring in people from around the world to experience it...that's tourism. If we wanted to build the world's most fascinating blow up fun house...that's toursim. If we wanted to expand our park system to bring in more naturists...that's tourism.

Plus, there are other things these dollars can go to that are maybe a touristy thing...fixing beach erosion is one example.

But much like the Folio, you are just listing out unrealistic alternatives. It makes it difficult to take their article seriously.

No, I'm making a larger point. The bed tax dollars do not have to go to the stadium as many seem to think. You know, we could just save the money. Is that an unrealistic alternative?

I have not seen one person say the money "had to" go to the stadium. But it is stated quite clearly that is must be used in some tourist-type fashion.

So hiring 100 teachers would not be possible. The Folio uses that as a red herring and it makes their argument worthless.

And is simply saving the money an unrealistic alternative? Yes. Yes it is.

[copperfiend]

meh.  unless metrojacksonville or a lobbyist raised a squawk about it, literally no one would notice.  Bet you that the vast majority of the people on this board didn't even knew the wording of the ordinance until this morning.  And this is a pretty savvy lot.

It was brought up alot in the past year. Because alot of local folks (and national pundits) made mention of the city spending "taxpayer money" on scoreboards instead of spending it on police or teachers or some other headline grabbibng statement.

[GatorShane]

I agree Stephen, it shouldn't have to be either or! Ive already had 2 discussions on my FB page this morning that pretty much despise the Jags and Kahn for this because they have the mentality that the money is being "taken" away from more important issues. I for one think that any investment in our  cultural and sports venues is money well spent, but we do need to find a way to fund other important things as well.

[jcjohnpaint]

Great list, but should be criticizing Khan?  Folio should follow with an article criticizing Maxwell house, Everbank, Tony Sleiman, Southside developers, our courthouse, and then on and on and on.  Maybe a piece on 'Advanced Capitalism and the Handout' would be better.  I think this is one of many things on the list that should be considered.  The problem is the weak leadership of our politicians (including both parties).  Khan is the perfect scapegoat because he is their imagined hero that comes into town to save the city.  Khan is not shrewd, he is just your typical contemporary businessman.  Blame our city leaders for not taking up a leadership role and having the courage to face at least 2 on this list. Our politicians are not standing behind taking tax payer money for scoreboards, Khan is and they are standing behind him! 

Again, good list, but article is shortsighted in my humble opinion. 

[duvaldude08]

Great list, but should be criticizing Khan?  Folio should follow with an article criticizing Maxwell house, Everbank, Tony Sleiman, Southside developers, our courthouse, and then on and on and on.  Maybe a piece on 'Advanced Capitalism and the Handout' would be better.  I think this is one of many things on the list that should be considered.  The problem is the weak leadership of our politicians (including both parties).  Khan is the perfect scapegoat because he is their imagined hero that comes into town to save the city.  Khan is not shrewd, he is just your typical contemporary businessman.  Blame our city leaders for not taking up a leadership role and having the courage to face at least 2 on this list. Our politicians are not standing behind taking tax payer money for scoreboards, Khan is and they are standing behind him! 

Again, good list, but article is shortsighted in my humble opinion.

I agree. Khan has much of nothing to do with this to be honest. Its the city leaders.

[JayBird]

What's that old saying about crying over spilt milk? One thing I have to give the Folio credit for is hopefully sparking someone to say "what do we have to do to put 100 more teachers in schools", "how can we set aside money to rebuild the emerald necklace", etc. I think that's the point we should be taking away here.

I too backed away for a few months from MJ, I went through chemo and radiation treatments for stage 3 pancreatic cancer and then when I returned to Jax I had the opportunity to meet a few regular posters. A lot of you are amazing people, but there was one that was completely not how they present themselves to be here. Like the T-U forums (trust me, MJ has several pegs to fall before being equal) people can hide in anonymity and some just like to debate. All that aside, this article and thread brings me back to what I liked when I first started reading MJ 5 yrs and when I started posting 4 yrs ago. That's that we all love this city, we all want to see it do well and prosper, and together we all have ideas that can make it so. One bad apple spoils the bunch, so it's a good thing we aren't apples. Thanks to the MJ moderators and regular posters who make us think, question and comment on our community daily.

[KenFSU]

^ Wow, truly sorry to hear what you are going through, but great to see you back!

[jcjohnpaint]

Glad your back and feeling better. 

[marty904]

We sit around on this forum and complain about the city not investing in quality of life projects and then when they try to blast them for it. 

Is it just that this qol investment doesn't pass a snob test I don't know about.

Perhaps too many suburban people will like this so we have to reject it.

So no wish list about the money spent on the collins road off ramp or outer belt way from folio but hey never miss a chance to vilify a billionaire no matter how he has conducted himself.  Having the money makes him evil enough....

It is sad that this article seems to pass the smell test from some posters I usually think are bright.

+ 1,000

[Rynjny]

We sit around on this forum and complain about the city not investing in quality of life projects and then when they try to blast them for it. 

Is it just that this qol investment doesn't pass a snob test I don't know about.

Perhaps too many suburban people will like this so we have to reject it.

So no wish list about the money spent on the collins road off ramp or outer belt way from folio but hey never miss a chance to vilify a billionaire no matter how he has conducted himself.  Having the money makes him evil enough....

It is sad that this article seems to pass the smell test from some posters I usually think are bright.

You forgot to mention the courthouse too, but I guess they're only going after the billionaire.

[Spitfire]

To be accurate, the bed tax can be used for whatever purposes the city votes for it.  Its for the promotion of tourism, not a piggy bank for any of the sports teams.

It certainly cannot be used for the majority of things listed by the Folio.

hmm.  i don't have a dog in this show, but which part of the ordinance says that?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0200-0299/0212/Sections/0212.0305.html

3. All consolidated county convention development moneys, including any interest accrued thereon, received by a county imposing the levy must be used in any of the following manners, although the utilization authorized in sub-subparagraph a. shall apply only to municipalities with a population of 10,000 or more:
a. To promote and advertise tourism;
b. To extend, enlarge, and improve existing publicly owned convention centers in the county;
c. To construct a multipurpose convention/coliseum/exhibition center or the maximum components thereof as funds permit in the county; and
d. To acquire, construct, extend, enlarge, remodel, repair, improve, or maintain one or more convention centers, stadiums, exhibition halls, arenas, coliseums, or auditoriums.

http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

"Of the six percent bed tax collected, two percent is deposited into the Sports Complex Capital Maintenance Enterprise Fund as authorized by Ordinance "2009-817-E", two percent is dedicated to paying debt service on the bonds issued to construct Alltel Stadium, and the other two percent is dedicated to tourism promotion. The TDC uses 70 percent of the money dedicated to tourism promotion to fund a contract with Visit Jacksonville to advertise and market the city and its attractions via newspaper and magazine ads, publication of informative magazines and brochures, targeted marketing to travel writers and tour operators, and various other means of spreading the word about Jacksonville as an attractive destination for visitors."

[Buforddawg]

Since opinions are like a.. bellybuttons, everyone has one.  Here is my opinion on this article.

Full disclosure - I am a Jags season ticket holder, I love the new video boards, and I'm glad they are there.

1.) Restore Jacksonville's 50 dirtiest creeks. Use the $43 million to remove 16,000 leaky septic tanks. Screw that, get the property owner to remove that leaky septic tank!  Is it not the responsibility of the homeowner to maintain the septic tanks on their property?  Why is it the city's responsibility to remove them?   I have a septic tank, I pay to have it inspected, pumped, and provide necessary maintenance.  Should I be sending these bills to the city for reimbursement?

2.) Increase police bike patrols.  That would be nice but given how Jacksonville is the 5th worst city in the United States for bicyclists (http://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/city-of-jacksonville-bicycling-conditions), I'd be afraid the insurance would be cost prohibitive.  I haven't had any crime issues when I go to Five Points, San Marco, or King Street.  Are you telling me I should I be worried when I go there now?

3.) Install 13,000 surveillance cameras. </start sarcasm font> I'd rather not have someone watch me scratch my butt as I'm walking to my car, unless the cameras are in Five Points, San Marco, or King Street area.  I hear they are dangerous places since there are no "Cops on Bikes" in those areas.  See item #2.</end sarcasm font>

4.) Build a light rail line to the Northside.  What's in Northside that would make me want to go there?  JTA doesn't have bus service? Are the buses so full that they need a train?

5.) Extend the Riverwalks. The article even says that there isn't enough land to extend the Riverwalks 3.5 miles.  You can't even tie up your boat to the existing riverwalks, why extend them if I can't park my boat and get out walk around.

6.) Create a night trolley to connect urban core neighborhoods on weekends.  Yes because drunks on a trolly are so much fun!  Really? I don't ever remember going to San Marco for dinner then driving to Five Points for drinks and then drive to Springfield for god knows what?

7.) Restore the Emerald Necklace. I'd be for this if it was something from Jacksonville's past but the city doesn't keep up it's existing parks why add an additional 8 miles of parks around downtown.

8.) Build 3,308 covered bus shelters.  Umbrellas / Ponchos are cheaper by the dozen.

9.) Put a down payment on an aquarium.   Why can't the really Wealthy peeps here in Jax fund the whole aquarium? That's what Bernard Marcus did for Atlanta - donated $250 million.  Corporations ponied up an additional $40 million and The Coca-Cola Company donated the land.  So come on rich people, donate and make this thing happen!

10.) Extend the Skyway. $40 million per mile?  Yeah, follow that yellow brick road.  Will it run on the weekends?  Will it be free or do we have to pay?  If we pay, will the turnstiles work?  Will there be a JTA person working the booth to make change or open the gate if it's broken?  Will homeless sit and ride it all day long to beat the heat?

Ok, I could only do 10.  I admit my responses are ridiculous but so was the article.  The bottom line is none of my tax dollars went to pay for those video boards.  I don't stay at a hotel in Jacksonville, I stay at home.  Where I pay property taxes for other things.  Which is a totally different thread all together.  So stop complaining about the video boards. What you should be complaining about are those freakin' water taxi boats that the city paid for and aren't using.  Now THAT was a waste of mine and your tax dollars.

[Rynjny]

Since opinions are like a.. bellybuttons, everyone has one.  Here is my opinion on this article.

Full disclosure - I am a Jags season ticket holder, I love the new video boards, and I'm glad they are there.

1.) Restore Jacksonville's 50 dirtiest creeks. Use the $43 million to remove 16,000 leaky septic tanks. Screw that, get the property owner to remove that leaky septic tank!  Is it not the responsibility of the homeowner to maintain the septic tanks on their property?  Why is it the city's responsibility to remove them?   I have a septic tank, I pay to have it inspected, pumped, and provide necessary maintenance.  Should I be sending these bills to the city for reimbursement?

2.) Increase police bike patrols.  That would be nice but given how Jacksonville is the 5th worst city in the United States for bicyclists (http://floridacyclinglaw.com/blog/archives/city-of-jacksonville-bicycling-conditions), I'd be afraid the insurance would be cost prohibitive.  I haven't had any crime issues when I go to Five Points, San Marco, or King Street.  Are you telling me I should I be worried when I go there now?

3.) Install 13,000 surveillance cameras. </start sarcasm font> I'd rather not have someone watch me scratch my butt as I'm walking to my car, unless the cameras are in Five Points, San Marco, or King Street area.  I hear they are dangerous places since there are no "Cops on Bikes" in those areas.  See item #2.</end sarcasm font>

4.) Build a light rail line to the Northside.  What's in Northside that would make me want to go there?  JTA doesn't have bus service? Are the buses so full that they need a train?

5.) Extend the Riverwalks. The article even says that there isn't enough land to extend the Riverwalks 3.5 miles.  You can't even tie up your boat to the existing riverwalks, why extend them if I can't park my boat and get out walk around.

6.) Create a night trolley to connect urban core neighborhoods on weekends.  Yes because drunks on a trolly are so much fun!  Really? I don't ever remember going to San Marco for dinner then driving to Five Points for drinks and then drive to Springfield for god knows what?

7.) Restore the Emerald Necklace. I'd be for this if it was something from Jacksonville's past but the city doesn't keep up it's existing parks why add an additional 8 miles of parks around downtown.

8.) Build 3,308 covered bus shelters.  Umbrellas / Ponchos are cheaper by the dozen.

9.) Put a down payment on an aquarium.   Why can't the really Wealthy peeps here in Jax fund the whole aquarium? That's what Bernard Marcus did for Atlanta - donated $250 million.  Corporations ponied up an additional $40 million and The Coca-Cola Company donated the land.  So come on rich people, donate and make this thing happen!

10.) Extend the Skyway. $40 million per mile?  Yeah, follow that yellow brick road.  Will it run on the weekends?  Will it be free or do we have to pay?  If we pay, will the turnstiles work?  Will there be a JTA person working the booth to make change or open the gate if it's broken?  Will homeless sit and ride it all day long to beat the heat?

Ok, I could only do 10.  I admit my responses are ridiculous but so was the article.  The bottom line is none of my tax dollars went to pay for those video boards.  I don't stay at a hotel in Jacksonville, I stay at home.  Where I pay property taxes for other things.  Which is a totally different thread all together.  So stop complaining about the video boards. What you should be complaining about are those freakin' water taxi boats that the city paid for and aren't using.  Now THAT was a waste of mine and your tax dollars.

BRAVO! +1000000000

[comncense]

I don't understand why Folio waited until after the unveiling of the scoreboards to put this article out. We all knew this was definitely going to happen. At this point it's like bitching about something that you aren't going to change. I don't think there's a 90 day return policy on the scoreboards. Maybe the upgrades to Everbank can steal some of the amazing shows that always seem to go to St. Augustine this days instead of Jax. I'm sure St. Augustine didn't NEED to spend the 8.7 million dollars to renovate the amphitheatre, but it definitely seems that they are reaping the benefits of the luxury of having such a nice venue.

[JeffreyS]

^ completely agree there was no constructive purpose for this article whatsoever.