The Rebirth of Avenues Walk

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Lakelander,

I lived in Chicago for six and a half years, which is very much like Philly in terms of housing options.  I lived in three different neighborhoods that all had a great mix of commercial, multi family and single family residential.  There were things I liked and didn't like about Chicago but comparing Jax to Philly or Chicago is like apples and oranges just based on the way the different cities have developed.  Cities like Philly and Chicago developed a lot well before WWII before everyone had a car, most of Jacksonville's development was post WWII and a totally different style once automobiles were common.  I think you have to compare Jax to similar cities like Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas.  All three have had huge problems with sprawl after WWII but are starting to combat it more than Jax is with small infill projects here and there making the neighborhoods and communities a little more pedestrian friendly.  A lot of areas in those cities are a work in progress but going in the right direction.  I don't think Jax will ever be like Philly or Chicago in terms of density nor do I think it should, I just want it to become more pedestrian friendly.  Personally I like feeling like I'm in a small town in the middle of the city like what San Marco has.  I just don't like developments that claim to be a "town centre" and sold on being a "downtown" and walkable when they really aren't unless you are right in the middle of the development and have driven there by car.  Most, like the SJTC, are just suburban malls without a roof with enormous parking lots around them making it inconvenient to get to other than by car.

+100

[I-10east]

I do like the idea of eventually linking the avenues area to rail transit but i think the mall needs to go first.

Why not tear down all of the malls in Jax for the sake of 'pedestrian centric' redevelopments?  Hell, even if a mall is a cash cow in the black, that doesn't matter...Surely no other city in the Southeast doesn't have any suburban malls...

[ProjectMaximus]

PM,
Ha ha, yeah that is setting the bar low! 

Well you started it 

One of the reasons we chose FC is because Bartram Oaks Walk is the only thing that resembles a walkable development

Anyway, in response to your criticisms of the other areas, I will preface this by saying that I totally agree with your overall sentiment, but:

St. Nicholas I think is easily on par with Bartram Oaks Walk. The walkscore at the center of the strip is higher than Bartram Oaks, the homes are better integrated with the businesses, and there are a lot of empty storefronts so it has potential to infill pretty nicely.

Lakewood does have potential if the intersection of San Jose and University was redesigned, and the whole stretch of University west of 95 is a commercial corridor running through residential neighborhoods...again good potential. 

St. Johns Town Center is a glorified mall surrounded by huge parking lots and thousands of cars, but if you live in 5 Thousand Town you'd have as much vibrancy at your doorstep as any other part of town. (Sadly) 

Anyway, as you have identified, the planning is disjointed if there even is any to begin with. Jacksonville must do better, but I was simply pointing out some alternatives since you felt like Bartram was your only option.

[tufsu1]

Why not tear down all of the malls in Jax for the sake of 'pedestrian centric' redevelopments?  Hell, even if a mall is a cash cow in the black, that doesn't matter...Surely no other city in the Southeast doesn't have any suburban malls...

There is nothing wrong with malls, but they can be designed to be more walkable.  Imagine, for a minute, what the Tinseltown area would look like if the restaurants and entertainment places were connected.  This would create a lively atmosphere that would likely yield higher revenue for all of the retail establishments

[I-10east]

^^^I'm not against pedestrian friendly malls, but to be fair, most malls are auto-centric. Many typical indoor auto centric malls are still very successful, and I don't have any problems with that, but I know that many on MJ do for the sake of being anti-suburban. Many have that 'no room for both of us' attitude, proof is the tearing down the Avenues comment which I think is ludicrous.

[CCMjax]

I agree and think it would be ludicrous to tear it down now when it is doing well, at least Avenues.  But I think Avenues and regency will both either be torn down or have major redesigns in the far future not near future.  Notice in my original post i said not likely within the next 10 years.  But many malls lose their luster and value over time, and since they are not exactly historic landmarks, it is not so rare to see complete redesigns or even replaced with something different.  I dont think all malls should be vaporized and forbidden.  They serve their purpose and are liked by many and a city without at least one or two would probably have trouble attracting people as well.  But a healthy balance is the key to a healthy city in my mind.

[I-10east]

^^^I personally think that the NFL stadium-esque redesigning a mall every fifteen years is highly overrated, barring a 50's Gateway-like situation. With it's renovation, Regency IMO has the best food court of all the malls in Jax, but it didn't do them much good (thanks to other issues like crime etc) I don't think that it's over for Regency just yet though.

Time an time again, I visit malls in and around Jax that won't bedazzle you with high tech water features, splendid interior design etc, and they are doing very well like the Orange Park Mall, Avenues, Oaks Mall in G-ville etc. I'm a big crime factor guy; If you have constant riff-raff in your mall, look for a decrease in patronage and retail because decent people don't wanna deal with that crap.