Jaguars to Develop Shipyards?

[Charles Hunter]

I think many people are in the mindset that somehow there will be football people developing this. The team's president Mark Lamping oversaw the building of the new Busch Stadium in St Louis. He left the Cardinals to oversee the building of the most expensive stadium in the country in MetLife Stadium. He is overseeing the current Everbank Field upgrades. He's not some layman when it comes to this.

Isn't that the definition of a "football people"?  Not drawing up plays, but working on football facilities.  He may well have the skills to develop a multi-use, non-football (or less football), project, but that resume' doesn't include any examples.

[copperfiend]

I think many people are in the mindset that somehow there will be football people developing this. The team's president Mark Lamping oversaw the building of the new Busch Stadium in St Louis. He left the Cardinals to oversee the building of the most expensive stadium in the country in MetLife Stadium. He is overseeing the current Everbank Field upgrades. He's not some layman when it comes to this.

Isn't that the definition of a "football people"?  Not drawing up plays, but working on football facilities.  He may well have the skills to develop a multi-use, non-football (or less football), project, but that resume' doesn't include any examples.

Actually, no. The Jaguars are the first football team he has worked for.

[MusicMan]

Speaking of real estate development:

Shad Khan supposedly funded the purchase of the Marble Bank Trio and the old Barnett Bank building. Last time I went by not one thing has been done to any of those buildings. Didn't this transaction occur over a year ago? How many traditional lenders would let it sit while they (the buyers) tried to figure out what to do with it. Is there a start date on the renovations on these buildings? Finalized projects with start and end dates?

The best plan for The Shipyards not only serves all of the broader Jacksonville community but also draws tourists driving south on I 95 into downtown for a day, and maybe even as an overnight stay. Done properly it could draw folks up from Orlando and Daytona. Something that works 365 days a year, not just when the football team is working. I don't know what that plan is, but you have to build a destination that works 365 days a year. Without that type/style of project you are missing the boat.

[acme54321]

Barnett is in work.  The others... not yet.

[duvaldude08]

I think a great example of what can be done here is Patriots Place. Its Patriot themed, but is mixed-use has a movie theater, dining, shopping, etc. Not saying this exact model would necessarily work in downtown Jax, but this is an example of what could be done. And you guessed the project was spearheaded by the Kraft Group.

http://www.patriot-place.com/

[duvaldude08]

Speaking of real estate development:

Shad Khan supposedly funded the purchase of the Marble Bank Trio and the old Barnett Bank building. Last time I went by not one thing has been done to any of those buildings. Didn't this transaction occur over a year ago? How many traditional lenders would let it sit while they (the buyers) tried to figure out what to do with it. Is there a start date on the renovations on these buildings? Finalized projects with start and end dates?

The best plan for The Shipyards not only serves all of the broader Jacksonville community but also draws tourists driving south on I 95 into downtown for a day, and maybe even as an overnight stay. Done properly it could draw folks up from Orlando and Daytona. Something that works 365 days a year, not just when the football team is working. I don't know what that plan is, but you have to build a destination that works 365 days a year. Without that type/style of project you are missing the boat.

The Jaguars have already stated it has to be something that works 365 days a year. They are aware of that.

[Charles Hunter]

I think many people are in the mindset that somehow there will be football people developing this. The team's president Mark Lamping oversaw the building of the new Busch Stadium in St Louis. He left the Cardinals to oversee the building of the most expensive stadium in the country in MetLife Stadium. He is overseeing the current Everbank Field upgrades. He's not some layman when it comes to this.

Isn't that the definition of a "football people"?  Not drawing up plays, but working on football facilities.  He may well have the skills to develop a multi-use, non-football (or less football), project, but that resume' doesn't include any examples.

Actually, no. The Jaguars are the first football team he has worked for.

Guess I missed on making my point - the examples were of football venues, whether or not he was "employed" by a football team - does he have other - not football stadium - development experience that might be applicable to a multi-use Shipyards?

[edjax]

^^or perhaps they would bring someone on board with that experience to work with on the project?  I mean they are six months out from deciding if they even want to get involved in it from a development standpoint. I think we are all getting ahead of ourselves without any real concrete information. 

[heights unknown]

Look what Clay County did to itself.....via community supported vision,Planners & Consultants et al 

Let's rename the town "Potential"

What would San Francisco do with 100 undeveloped waterfont acres??

Develop it!!!

[BoldCityRealist]

Excuse me for raining on some peoples pessimistic parade.

The real irony of this post is that the people who are in favor of just giving the land away to the Jags are the pessimists. You are the ones that think Jacksonville has to settle for mediocrity. That nobody in the private market would want prime riverfront property. That a football team can develop public land better than people in the development business. That Jacksonville can't do things the same way that wildly successful cities do.

Unfortunately, our city government is so inept, that some people have a very jaded view on how this process should work. Hopefully the CRA will provide a little more clarity and guidance. However, given the Jags public and private posturing for this land and Khan's relationship with the mayor, they are probably influencing that process as well.

For the most part, the people in the "development business" have given this city absolute crap.

That's an awfully broad brush....Are you saying all the new projects in Brooklyn (Jax) are crap? Because those are the most recent examples of what we've gotten. Are you saying the Jaguars could serve as master developer better than say, Hines? Who does have a local presence, but haven't done anything in the urban core that I'm aware of.
http://www.hines.com/about/

The suburban shopping center in Brooklyn is terrible.

Agreed. Why did the shopping center have to turn out like the one with a Fresh Market off Atlantic and San Pablo?

[tufsu1]

^ likely because that's what Fresh Market wanted

[Tacachale]

^And the DDRB didn't enforce the standards.

[tufsu1]

^And the DDRB didn't enforce the standards.

partially true....from what I recall, DDRB fought hard to get the developer to improve the design....keep in mind there was political pressure since the Mayor REALLY wanted the project...in fact, the other night he claimed that 220 Riverside and Fresh Market were his projects.

[pierre]

^And the DDRB didn't enforce the standards.

partially true....from what I recall, DDRB fought hard to get the developer to improve the design....keep in mind there was political pressure since the Mayor REALLY wanted the project...in fact, the other night he claimed that 220 Riverside and Fresh Market were his projects.

And therein lies the problem. We are one of the few cities where developers tell our leadership how they will do things instead of vice versa.

[Tacachale]

^And the DDRB didn't enforce the standards.

partially true....from what I recall, DDRB fought hard to get the developer to improve the design....keep in mind there was political pressure since the Mayor REALLY wanted the project...in fact, the other night he claimed that 220 Riverside and Fresh Market were his projects.

Yes, absolutely. I didn't mean that as a slight against DDRB, just pointing out we do have standards though we often don't stick to them. In this case, largely because the mayor was pushing them not to.