What are the Current Views on Jville's Gay Community from First Baptist?

[Cheshire Cat]

^Hehehehe.  Tell you what, just the visual of Jerry Vines, his wife and repairing sexual dysfunction is creepy.  My opinion of course.

[Cheshire Cat]

^Hehehehe.  Tell you what, just the visual of Jerry Vines, his wife and repairing sexual dysfunction is creepy.  My opinion of course.

Although there is something to be said for being able to still find your spouse sexually moving after more than thirty years, I think.  If I was looking for how to sustain a lifelong sexual relationship, I would certainly take the opinion of elder people who have long since lost their youthful blush pretty seriously.

Let me tell you Stephen as you get older, it becomes less and less important to what makes for a lasting relationship.  But I really can't imagine any creative/exciting advice on ones sex life coming from elderly clergymen.  lmao    I think it is basically, man on top get it over with quickly if I recollect the church teachings on this from my own youth. Hahaha

[ronchamblin]

My goodness, I get up from my first sleep of the night, and find this thread about FBC and their relation to LGBT's, having within it a snipe at me, and a defense or two.  Thanks Ben, and Diane, and Stephen too, as you've moderated your attacks somewhat.

Yes, I do have a little difficulty fitting into the core, as I am a non-believer, an atheist, and most in and around the core seem not to be.  But this forum has helped me tremendously, as it has allowed me to argue and learn how best to tender my opinions concerning my freedom from believing in revealed religions.  Whereas my early posts are rather insensitive and crude, to the degree that I avoid reviewing them, I like to think that my arguments now are more considerate to others, and to the realities of believing, and not believing.  I recall the posts wherein I was very unreasonable as I expressed my dissatisfaction with the large church presence in the core.

I was using the forum as a vehicle to express what I thought to be good representations of my thinking about the church and about religion.  Exercising one's writing, and thus one's thinking, is the wonderful thing about this forum, and one reason I support it.

As far as my place being only a bookshop / cafe .. well, I guess that's all it is.  But the game aint over yet.  And I am progressing on my next core project in the 225 building.  If I were thirty or forty again, I would keep "doing buildings", little ones, one at a time, until we filled them all.  This will be my last building.

I've never said much about the LGBT issue, perhaps because it is complex and sensitive.  During the fifties, when I was in school, we would hear of these illusive, secret, persons called queers.  I don't remember the term "gay" at that time.  There was no media coverage regarding gay/lesbian -- at least I don't remember any --, so us naive fellows wondered if these creatures really existed.  Life went on, and us naive, ignorant, fellows engaged our need for and fear of "girls".

I remember in the late seventies, I began to get gay/lesbian books traded in at the bookstore.  I would wonder .. "What am I going to do with these things?"  I had no real category set up for them.  So I just placed the several books in a corner -- without a category sign.  Currently, we have many hundreds of the LGBT titles, and have a sign .. LGBT.

It seems to me that most people these days are realizing that this LGBT thing is not going away, and that increasingly a relative, friend, co-worker, customer, or acquaintance ...  is "one of them".  I am amazed at the number of gays/lesbians in our city.  Whereas years ago I would feel uncomfortable being around "one", I have come to accept the growing population, as I certainly cannot do anything to change things, and certainly have no reason or desire to do so. I consider gays and lesbians to be ... well, normal for the most part.  I have settled to the opinion that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being gay, and that if people like that choice ... that lifestyle .. let them have the freedom, just as I have my freedom.  Who is anyone, to decide on other's choice of friendship, love, or sex?

And this high frequency of LGBT persons seems to give credibility or approval to those engaging the lifestyle.  Apparently the bible says something about gays, so it is understandable that most churches are finding themselves in awkward positions.  It seems that many have moderated their rhetoric against the gay community.

Yes ... it is a complex and sensitive issue, as one can obtain sexual gratification in all sorts of ways .. with all sorts of partners.  Who is to decide how, what, or who is to be part of that process of sexual gratification? Freedom, consideration, and respect is what is needed .... whether it comes from individuals, governments, or churches.

The idea of sin, as proffered by some evangelical churches, encourages guilt, and thus depression, awkwardness, fear, and suffering.

[Cheshire Cat]

Nice thoughtful response Ron. 

[AuditoreEnterprise]

Well put Ron. I do see you guys have been busy and if I have any services I may offer to help you in your endeavors please feel free to let me know. I would welcome the opportunity to talk to you.

[edjax]

Well it was well put by Ron I would say with the exception of his comments about nothing fundamentally wrong with being gay and if people like that "choice", more freedom to them.  Hmmm.  Aren't we past the gay thing being a choice?

[Cheshire Cat]

Well it was well put by Ron I would say with the exception of his comments about nothing fundamentally wrong with being gay and if people like that "choice", more freedom to them.  Hmmm.  Aren't we past the gay thing being a choice?

Ed, its Ron. In Ron speak he likes gay folks just fine and their personal life is their personal life.  lol

[AuditoreEnterprise]

Well it was well put by Ron I would say with the exception of his comments about nothing fundamentally wrong with being gay and if people like that "choice", more freedom to them.  Hmmm.  Aren't we past the gay thing being a choice?

Ed, its Ron. In Ron speak he likes gay folks just fine and their personal life is their personal life.  lol

lol I think the quotes he put in his reply is an indication to general speak. In my honest opinion he made that statement all together as general as he could to avoid making people fuss about the topic. It is one of the most touchy ones on the market as of now. Next to racism that is. It's over analyzed word for word.

[AuditoreEnterprise]

meh.  its a viewpoint from the swaggery 1970s at best. And you know people are still committing suicide, passing death penalties and kidnapping and torturing people for being gay, so Im not sure its about the 'term' being 'touchy'.

just saying.

I wasn't talking about the terms being touchy I was saying the subject itself is one of the touchiest.

[AuditoreEnterprise]

okay i re-read this a couple times and see where it went off course... i saw your quotes touchy and terms... Upon further review I note that the quotes were insertions of the sarcastic air quotes type.

I am well aware of the statistics you mentioned. I also participated in several campaigns throughout California opposing such violence and many more hours advocating for various campaigns such as be a star, NOH8 and so forth. I just said it's a touchy subject. Which it is.

I never denied that there are violent instances regarding people's sexuality. In fact i never even mentioned anything pertaining to that i thought it was okay. Just seems more like a conclusion before you knew my whole view on it.

I do apologize if you may have seen that otherwise. And I am actually no longer going to entertain this topic as I have the same views as you.

[AuditoreEnterprise]

lol, no problem auditore.  I am glad you are posting btw. Great commentary.

I just thought I would take the chance and underline the issue that its not just the churches that have a history of intolerance or misunderstanding the issues.  Its a lot of people.

Even people who are 'for' the gays, honestly have no idea that reducing glbt issues to 'sexual gratification' or 'choice' is kind of missing the whole past 20 years of public conversation.

Its like glbt people didnt just spend a generation caring for each other, nursing loved ones through AIDS related health issues, burying their dead, contributing their entire estates for research, and reaching out to help glbt teens who have been committing suicide over their identity for the entire 20th Century.

Much less learning how to come out, be in love, search for some happiness, raise the families that they were already involved in, make new ones, etc.

Its a complex issue on both sides, and the ignorance I think, is based in the idea of trying to simplify the entire panorama down to 'sexual gratification' choices.

And to be honest, I think people are beginning to see these issues as more nuanced and broader.  But change comes hard for people who have been taught something their entire lives.  Patience and understanding for people as they go through that process seems to help I guess.

Although I dont think that any undue patience is necessary for the politicians who are supposed to be representing the public.  They have a job to do, and that is to fairly act in the interests of the public.  They signed up for that job and spent a lot of money for the privilege of having the responsibility.

lol I am trying to be involved, but I am running a business so at the same time I am trying to be cautious lol. Thanks though Stephen. I am gonna try and make it out to the coffee joint tonight also.

[ronchamblin]

Been thinking about this gay thing again.  Sorry.  Insomnia.

I've always suggested that the earth should have only about 500 or so million human types living upon it ... that we humans should, as much as possible, return the earth to the less destructive non-human animals ... to nature in other words.  Obviously the overwhelming majority of us humans tend to favor profit and material wealth over all other concerns, and have little time or concern for the health of the small globe upon which we live.  We tend to consume without end .... to be greedy ... and to destroy whatever is good in the process.
   
The good thing is that the increasing freedoms allowing more individuals to more comfortably live with, and love, a same sex partner has the unexpected  benefit to the earth's ecosystem in that it offers a trend to reduce the earth's population.  How many gay persons have children?

Whereas wars, famine, natural disasters, and disease act to reduce the world's population, the "gay factor" does so without the condition of suffering.  Therefore, mother earth should welcome the gay relationships, as they ultimately improve the ecosystem, the earths health, and thus the wellbeing of all earth's humans, via population reduction.

[BridgeTroll]

Been thinking about this gay thing again.  Sorry.  Insomnia.

I've always suggested that the earth should have only about 500 or so million human types living upon it ... that we humans should, as much as possible, return the earth to the less destructive non-human animals ... to nature in other words.  Obviously the overwhelming majority of us humans tend to favor profit and material wealth over all other concerns, and have little time or concern for the health of the small globe upon which we live.  We tend to consume without end .... to be greedy ... and to destroy whatever is good in the process.
   
The good thing is that the increasing freedoms allowing more individuals to more comfortably live with, and love, a same sex partner has the unexpected  benefit to the earth's ecosystem in that it offers a trend to reduce the earth's population.  How many gay persons have children?

Whereas wars, famine, natural disasters, and disease act to reduce the world's population, the "gay factor" does so without the condition of suffering.  Therefore, mother earth should welcome the gay relationships, as they ultimately improve the ecosystem, the earths health, and thus the wellbeing of all earth's humans, via population reduction.

You should really find a way to get some sleep

[edjax]

Been thinking about this gay thing again.  Sorry.  Insomnia.

I've always suggested that the earth should have only about 500 or so million human types living upon it ... that we humans should, as much as possible, return the earth to the less destructive non-human animals ... to nature in other words.  Obviously the overwhelming majority of us humans tend to favor profit and material wealth over all other concerns, and have little time or concern for the health of the small globe upon which we live.  We tend to consume without end .... to be greedy ... and to destroy whatever is good in the process.
   
The good thing is that the increasing freedoms allowing more individuals to more comfortably live with, and love, a same sex partner has the unexpected  benefit to the earth's ecosystem in that it offers a trend to reduce the earth's population.  How many gay persons have children?

Whereas wars, famine, natural disasters, and disease act to reduce the world's population, the "gay factor" does so without the condition of suffering.  Therefore, mother earth should welcome the gay relationships, as they ultimately improve the ecosystem, the earths health, and thus the wellbeing of all earth's humans, via population reduction.

Well damn.  Since the gays have such a big job in front of them to save Mother Earth we better get more people to choose the gay lifestyle.  Sign ups at the bookstore on weekends?

[ronchamblin]

My post was meant to be an observation from my position of being neutral on this thing, not wanting to promote or prevent, but acting mainly as a journalist, which is what I want to be when I grow up.

I observe from the sidelines, as many journalists do, and find myself wondering if it might be appropriate for some, during some events, to display a banner saying "Gay is Green", based on the idea that the gays in some small measure relieve the population pressure on the suffering mother earth simply because their relationships do not produce offspring.