Festival ‘Sparks’ Ridership Boom on Skyway

[Metro Jacksonville]

Festival ‘Sparks’ Ridership Boom on Skyway



What happens when thousands of people descend upon the streets of Downtown Jacksonville? The Skyway swells with riders proving its ultimate success is truly dependent on our community having a lively urban core. Here is a look at how the Skyway was impacted by last week's One Spark 2014 Festival.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-apr-festival-sparks-ridership-boom-on-skyway

[Keith-N-Jax]

I think this is what we all envisioned about the skyway and more. Nice to see the One Spark sign on the car.

[exnewsman]

One Spark shows what the Skyway could be with a healthy and vibrant Downtown. Though 20k/day may be unrealistic without some expansion - there is room for improvement even with the current configuration. One million rides a year is impressive, but two million could be within reach in 3-4 years with constant promotion, more Downtown events, etc.

Of course, the expansion into Brooklyn would go a long way toward connecting areas together. San Marco to Riverside. Brooklyn to Downtown. The financial district, 220 Riverside, Fresh Market - all connecting to Downtown and/or San Marco. That's a real positive thing.

But perhaps the best advantage of this kind of ridership for One Spark is the perception of the Skyway. Not so much bashing going on during the past couple of years - despite the lack of destinations to travel.

[DjDonnyD]

Expand the Skyway to Everbank Field and it could be like this every weekend. This is not to mention what it would be like all week with some expansion! It would also bring us one step closer to being a world class city! Come on JTA ... You can do it! (The Little Train that could - pun intended) :0)

[Cheshire Cat]

Expand the Skyway to Everbank Field and it could be like this every weekend. This is not to mention what it would be like all week with some expansion! It would also bring us one step closer to being a world class city! Come on JTA ... You can do it! (The Little Train that could - pun intended) :0)

Expansion takes money and political will.  Right now the city seems to have neither.  I do agree with your point however.

[simms3]

Expanding the skyway is a waste.  It would cost tens of millions just to get a few hundred, maybe a couple thousand more daily riders at most.

For not much more you can basically build a light rail/tram system to somewhere that will serve far more people and in general be far more useful.

[simms3]

Expand the Skyway to Everbank Field and it could be like this every weekend. This is not to mention what it would be like all week with some expansion! It would also bring us one step closer to being a world class city! Come on JTA ... You can do it! (The Little Train that could - pun intended) :0)

That little rinky dink skyway is definitely not meant to handle football stadium crowds.  Holy smokes!  That would be an F'ing nightmare.  A full on heavy rail system has a hard enough time handling crowds of tens of thousands of fans, let alone this thing.  It would be deemed an immediate failure after just one game.  Can you imagine advertising "Park N Ride the Skyway" to the game, so that's what fans do?  And right off the bat there is a 2 hour wait to get over there as there is simply not enough car capacity and long headways and slow speeds...it would totally ruin the game day experience for thousands of fans.

[Cheshire Cat]

Expand the Skyway to Everbank Field and it could be like this every weekend. This is not to mention what it would be like all week with some expansion! It would also bring us one step closer to being a world class city! Come on JTA ... You can do it! (The Little Train that could - pun intended) :0)


That little rinky dink skyway is definitely not meant to handle football stadium crowds.  Holy smokes!  That would be an F'ing nightmare.  A full on heavy rail system has a hard enough time handling crowds of tens of thousands of fans, let alone this thing.  It would be deemed an immediate failure after just one game.  Can you imagine advertising "Park N Ride the Skyway" to the game, so that's what fans do?  And right off the bat there is a 2 hour wait to get over there as there is simply not enough car capacity and long headways and slow speeds...it would totally ruin the game day experience for thousands of fans.

I don't think that is what DJ was saying Simms.  The skyway could however be a nice addition to the current stadium transportation needs.  However as already stated, the money and will to do such an expansion is not there.  I know that it was really nice to be able to park and ride the rail during One Spark though.  Folks were loving it. 

[thelakelander]

For not much more you can basically build a light rail/tram system to somewhere that will serve far more people and in general be far more useful.

This is very true.  You could probably get three miles of streetcar for the same cost it would take to get a mile of Skyway. For comparison's sake, three miles is essentially enough track to connect Riverside to Downtown.

[Cheshire Cat]

For not much more you can basically build a light rail/tram system to somewhere that will serve far more people and in general be far more useful.

This is very true.  You could probably get three miles of streetcar for the same cost it would take to get a mile of Skyway. For comparison's sake, three miles is essentially enough track to connect Riverside to Downtown.

Which is something you, Ock and others have talked about for a long time.  This is something worth pursuing.

[simms3]

Expand the Skyway to Everbank Field and it could be like this every weekend. This is not to mention what it would be like all week with some expansion! It would also bring us one step closer to being a world class city! Come on JTA ... You can do it! (The Little Train that could - pun intended) :0)

That little rinky dink skyway is definitely not meant to handle football stadium crowds.  Holy smokes!  That would be an F'ing nightmare.  A full on heavy rail system has a hard enough time handling crowds of tens of thousands of fans, let alone this thing.  It would be deemed an immediate failure after just one game.  Can you imagine advertising "Park N Ride the Skyway" to the game, so that's what fans do?  And right off the bat there is a 2 hour wait to get over there as there is simply not enough car capacity and long headways and slow speeds...it would totally ruin the game day experience for thousands of fans.

I don't think that is what DJ was saying Simms.  The skyway could however be a nice addition to the current stadium transportation needs.  However as already stated, the money and will to do such an expansion is not there.  I know that it was really nice to be able to park and ride the rail during One Spark though.  Folks were loving it. 

It would be a horrible idea.  What's worse than implementing no idea/nothing?  Implementing a horrible idea.  Imagine you as a fan having gone through the Skyway debacle once...now after a season the thing in general is known as a debacle, but then media reports that ridership lines have drastically gone down, etc etc.  Then do you make the decision to risk it and Park N Ride in, when perhaps thousands of other fans are thinking the same thing?

A football stadium needs to empty 70-80,000 fans in an hour.  A heavy rail line (from experience using subway post-event in several cities with varying sizes of systems) will only put a dent in this crowd...and there will still be an insane crowd and push to get on a train.

Per the link below, a line on Jacksonville's Skyway has a maximum capacity of 3,600 per hour.
https://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/jack.htm

Now the standard heavy rail line has a capacity of 30,000 per hour (assuming 10 vehicles per train, 50 seats and a load factor of 2.0 where 50 sitters and 50 standers can fit in a train, so 1,000 passengers per train, with 30 vehicle sets per hour, which equates to 2 minute headways, which is only achieved on a few rail lines globally).  I can speak from experience that at 5 minute headways and peak rush hour crowding, individual heavy rail lines are still able to move this number.  This would imply a load factor of 4.0.  It happens.

The Skyway has one of the lowest capacities for all transit systems.  It should never be connected to an arena or a football stadium, and the math is definitely there to support the logic in avoiding crowding situations like those with barely survivable transit systems like the Skyway.

[Steve]

I will say, I've left Citi Field in NY quite a few times from Mets games, and getting on the 7 train is a zoo...and the NYC Transit people really do everything they can. They have full length trains staged just past the stop (the Citi Field stop is the second from the end of the 7 line), plus they run several "super express" trains that even skip the express stops in Queens and go straight to Manhattan.

So, while part of me would love an extension someday for things like a convention center, connecting the arena/ballpark to Bay St, emptying EverBank field isn't going to work.

Now, given that a streetcar is much cheaper, it seems like a moot point anyway. JTA really is in a spot with the system.

[JaxJersey-licious]

I think the only thing that could make the Skyway viable and help DT become a destination would be if full-scale casino construction would be permitted in Florida and a license was awarded to one in the old Shipyards locale. The casino would also have to contain some major retail/entertainment components and possible convention space possibilities (when they move Amtrak service back to the old Jax terminal which would also increase Skyway ridership). You can stipulate the casino help pay a portion of the construction bonds as part of being awarded the license, and expanding it to Metro Park would offer convenient additional satellite parking options not just for the complex but DT as well.

With the increased demand, you can start charging people to use it again, couple-up cars to increase capacity, and sell more advertising on cars and stations. To save costs, go ahead and make It land-based like a trolley, or better yet retrofit that dragstrip off of the Hart Expy. for trains and have all cars exit onto Bay St from the Hart Bridge to spur further development in the area.

I can dream, can't I...

[simms3]

I will say, I've left Citi Field in NY quite a few times from Mets games, and getting on the 7 train is a zoo...and the NYC Transit people really do everything they can. They have full length trains staged just past the stop (the Citi Field stop is the second from the end of the 7 line), plus they run several "super express" trains that even skip the express stops in Queens and go straight to Manhattan.

So, while part of me would love an extension someday for things like a convention center, connecting the arena/ballpark to Bay St, emptying EverBank field isn't going to work.

Now, given that a streetcar is much cheaper, it seems like a moot point anyway. JTA really is in a spot with the system.

^^^There's a raging debate in SF on whether to bring the Warriors into the city from Oakland.  Some people are saying "but there's transit nearby so it will work!" while other people are countering "have you ridden BART or MUNI recently?!?".  LoL

Speaking of, I was just at a Warriors game (this is NBA, not football, for those who aren't immediately aware...so a crowd that is ~25% of what it would be for a Niners or Raiders game).  BART has a stop by Oracle Arena (and Raiders stadium) that serves 2 lines, but only one that goes into SF (the other going up to Richmond).  It took me I dunno, maybe 30 minutes of intense pushing to get on a train.  And the Transbay Tube on a normal midday non-rush hour ride scares me.  Crammed in with people pushed up against the windows is treacherously claustrophobic (5 minute ride under water at full speed with the idea that an earthquake can happen any minute, LoL...at least everyone is in it together, #humanity).

[thelakelander]

I think the only thing that could make the Skyway viable and help DT become a destination would be if full-scale casino construction would be permitted in Florida and a license was awarded to one in the old Shipyards locale.

Downtown Detroit has three full blown casinos now. The peoplemover actually stops at Greektown Casino. Nevertheless, ridership on the peoplemover has not spiked. Ridership growth on the Skyway is more dependent on it being fully integrated with the rest of the regional transportation network.  Out of the Skyway, Detroit Peoplemover and Miami Metromover, Metromover is the only one that gets decent ridership numbers.  The difference is it has Metrorail and Tri-Rail to feed riders into it on a daily basis.

I will say, I've left Citi Field in NY quite a few times from Mets games, and getting on the 7 train is a zoo...and the NYC Transit people really do everything they can. They have full length trains staged just past the stop (the Citi Field stop is the second from the end of the 7 line), plus they run several "super express" trains that even skip the express stops in Queens and go straight to Manhattan.

So, while part of me would love an extension someday for things like a convention center, connecting the arena/ballpark to Bay St, emptying EverBank field isn't going to work.

Now, given that a streetcar is much cheaper, it seems like a moot point anyway. JTA really is in a spot with the system.

Detroit's Peoplemover serves the arena where the Red Wings play and Metromover gets pretty close to the Miami Heat's arena. It fills up pretty quick with fans using it as a connection piece to Metrorail. That arena has a seating capacity near 20k.