Aquarium could be coming to Jacksonville?

[edjax]

^^agree.  In most cities the buildings still standing around the arena would have been snapped up and already be bars and restaraunts.  As Shad stated those with the money in Jax have no vision and mojo.  Then with the shipyards redevelopment it would be a happening place and then more reason to connect it downtown with trolleys, etc similar to the beaches trolley.

[SunKing]

Actually the Chattanooga Aquarium preceded and provided a catalyst for the surrounding development. 

The conversion of the Walnut Street Bridge into one of the longest pedestrian bridges in the county preceded the aquarium. It's pretty inaccurate to claim that the Tennessee Aquarium was the one trick pony that turned Chattanooga around. The things they did were coordinated and a lot more comprehensive.

We heard from a lot of city leaders and civic advocates here in the Scenic City and it is abundantly clear they never had a conversation about an aquarium in isolation. In fact, everything they did was put into a larger context.

And Lake is right, according to leaders here.. the pedestrian bridge preceded the aquarium.

Well you could say the river preceded the bridge but you two are both not giving credit to the fact that the aquarium was the catalyst.  Besides that the Walnut Street Bridge opened the year after the aquarium.  This article tells the story and although it doesn't even mention the bridge in timeline, I would give it more credit in regards to its part in the revival.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/apr/29/aquarium-changed-cityscape-attitudes/

The aquarium was controversial at the time but you are both wrong in that it came before the bridge as well as being the catalyst for Chattanooga's urban renewal.

[thelakelander]

And the Hunter Museum preceded both.....Actually being in Chattanooga on foot and being told directly from the mayor, developers and other civic leaders about it being much more comprehensive, I'm going to take their word over that article. The aquarium was not a one trick pony that single handedly transformed Chattanooga. We're once again doing our community a huge disservice by attempting to sell such a tale and expecting an unrealistic outcome as the result.

[Tacachale]

I think it's fair to say the Chattanooga aquarium has been a catalyst for other development, but only because it and the surrounding area were planned in such a way as to fully capitalize on it. If an aquarium is going to be isolated, it could just as easily go somewhere that doesn't require it to take up a substantial amount of valuable riverfront property.

[IrvAdams]

IrvAdams. Are you for sure or is it a hope that tourist will flock downtown and to the river, simply to visit an isolated aquarium? Even though literally half of the South's major cities have aquariums, you'll be hard pressed to find them isolated. Like convention centers, they work best when they're a part of several complementing uses feeding each other within a compact pedestrian scale setting.

But Doesn't this complex of complementing uses have to start with something? Why not an aquarium? I've been to several aquariums in different cities, and I found each one to be different and local.

There's also the movement to bring the Adams here, that's a nautical theme also. I think this idea is as good a start as any, especially if their hand is not out for public dollars.

[IrvAdams]

^To expand on my point: I've lived here all my life, and unlike every other city in Florida, Jax has basically never seemed to try and attract any visitors off the Interstate. It's I-95 for goodness sake, thousands pass by every day. It's almost like we were happy to hustle them on through.

Heck, we never even put up a simple sign that said "Exit here to see the largest Oak tree in the South, the 200 year old Treaty Oak." . We have minor and major attractions, shoreline, riverfront, Riverwalk, museums, etc. that are free and we have never bothered to really brag about them.

I would love to see a large glassed-in building on the riverfront with a ginormous sign that could be seen from the Xway that said "North Florida Regional Aquarium and Education Center". Or a more exciting name like "AquaWorld" or "Marine World".

I mean, let's try something. They may like it.

[AuditoreEnterprise]

^To expand on my point: I've lived here all my life, and unlike every other city in Florida, Jax has basically never seemed to try and attract any visitors off the Interstate. It's I-95 for goodness sake, thousands pass by every day. It's almost like we were happy to hustle them on through.

Heck, we never even put up a simple sign that said "Exit here to see the largest Oak tree in the South, the 200 year old Treaty Oak." . We have minor and major attractions, shoreline, riverfront, Riverwalk, museums, etc. that are free and we have never bothered to really brag about them.

I would love to see a large glassed-in building on the riverfront with a ginormous sign that could be seen from the Xway that said "North Florida Regional Aquarium and Education Center". Or a more exciting name like "AquaWorld" or "Marine World".

I mean, let's try something. They may like it.

I agree with what you are saying. I just don't see it being reasonable to put downtown. Maybe at the beaches or somewhere like that, but I just don't see where it would fit in to downtown. It would require removal of something else. Let's face it the infrastructure of an Aquarium + parking takes some substantial real estate. I liked the idea of making it an extension of the Zoo. Possibly completely different park, but right next door. That may be a good idea... Just not downtown. From the people I have had come to my office, there worries are far greater than vagrants and lack of activity. Most people born and bred in North Florida aren't used to the parallel parking with limited space and one way streets. It seems to frustrate people. Just my honest opinion. I love the idea like I say, but not in downtown.

[thelakelander]

I think it's fair to say the Chattanooga aquarium has been a catalyst for other development, but only because it and the surrounding area were planned in such a way as to fully capitalize on it. If an aquarium is going to be isolated, it could just as easily go somewhere that doesn't require it to take up a substantial amount of valuable riverfront property.

Yes, this is correct. The aquarium was a part of a coordinated and comprehensive plan. It was never a si gale entity or starting point. It was specifically mentioned that instead of rolling out a single thing, they raised funds necessary to implement several linked redevelopment projects at once. This important nugget is being overlooked in the Jax discussion.

[Cheshire Cat]

I think it's fair to say the Chattanooga aquarium has been a catalyst for other development, but only because it and the surrounding area were planned in such a way as to fully capitalize on it. If an aquarium is going to be isolated, it could just as easily go somewhere that doesn't require it to take up a substantial amount of valuable riverfront property.

Yes, this is correct. The aquarium was a part of a coordinated and comprehensive plan. It was never a si gale entity or starting point. It was specifically mentioned that instead of rolling out a single thing, they raised funds necessary to implement several linked redevelopment projects at once. This important nugget is being overlooked in the Jax discussion.

Do you mean overlooked by those at the table financially Ennis?  Where would you see such an aquarium being built in Jacksonville to give the city the best impact from this potential development? 

[thelakelander]

IrvAdams. Are you for sure or is it a hope that tourist will flock downtown and to the river, simply to visit an isolated aquarium? Even though literally half of the South's major cities have aquariums, you'll be hard pressed to find them isolated. Like convention centers, they work best when they're a part of several complementing uses feeding each other within a compact pedestrian scale setting.

But Doesn't this complex of complementing uses have to start with something? Why not an aquarium? I've been to several aquariums in different cities, and I found each one to be different and local.

There's also the movement to bring the Adams here, that's a nautical theme also. I think this idea is as good a start as any, especially if their hand is not out for public dollars.

Haven't we already started with the performing arts center, Landing, MOSH, Hyatt, Elbow, etc? If having an aquarium is desired and we want to use Chattanooga or Baltimore as the economic example, we need to talk less about specific uses and more about coordinating their placement in order to create a compact environment where all of these things feed off each other. That's where Chattanooga has really been successful. It was much more than just building an aquarium.

[thelakelander]

I think it's fair to say the Chattanooga aquarium has been a catalyst for other development, but only because it and the surrounding area were planned in such a way as to fully capitalize on it. If an aquarium is going to be isolated, it could just as easily go somewhere that doesn't require it to take up a substantial amount of valuable riverfront property.

Yes, this is correct. The aquarium was a part of a coordinated and comprehensive plan. It was never a si gale entity or starting point. It was specifically mentioned that instead of rolling out a single thing, they raised funds necessary to implement several linked redevelopment projects at once. This important nugget is being overlooked in the Jax discussion.

Do you mean overlooked by those at the table financially Ennis?  Where would you see such an aquarium being built in Jacksonville to give the city the best impact from this potential development? 

Personally I think the impact will be much more limited than many in Jax think. Aquariums come a dime a dozen now. Even Orlandois getting one....along with a London Eye sized ferris wheel, wax museum with shuttle service and ticket packages to Legoland. Thiswill open in aanother year or two on I-Drive. So there will be aquariums in Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, and Charleston. I doubt significant traffic on I-95 will be pulling off to visit (many fly these days anyway). Besides, how is that IMAX at WGV doing? Are people flocking to visit it despite thesame thing being in every decent sized city these days?

With that said, if someone wants to spend their money on an aquarium, go for it. However, I believe the Jax conversation should focus moreon what type of downtown waterfront do we want to have and less on coming up and promoting isolated "save the day" gimmicks. Go through that process and we'll find out if specific uses like aquariums are the way to go, along with determining exactly where they should be sited.

[fieldafm]

^To expand on my point: I've lived here all my life, and unlike every other city in Florida, Jax has basically never seemed to try and attract any visitors off the Interstate. It's I-95 for goodness sake, thousands pass by every day. It's almost like we were happy to hustle them on through.

Heck, we never even put up a simple sign that said "Exit here to see the largest Oak tree in the South, the 200 year old Treaty Oak." . We have minor and major attractions, shoreline, riverfront, Riverwalk, museums, etc. that are free and we have never bothered to really brag about them.

I would love to see a large glassed-in building on the riverfront with a ginormous sign that could be seen from the Xway that said "North Florida Regional Aquarium and Education Center". Or a more exciting name like "AquaWorld" or "Marine World".

I mean, let's try something. They may like it.

That's a different conversation. My point is that if you look at Chatanooga, or Baltimore... They didn't just stick an aquarium 1.5 miles away from any sign of life and all of a sudden their downtowns magically worked. Which is essentially the premise behind putting an aquarium at an isolated location like Metro Park.

[edjax]

While I am not sure it is a good idea, I am not sure i understand the talk that it would be an isolated aquarium being built necessarily.   The JBj article states they have had discussions with Mark Lamping of the Jaguars who would most likely lead any of Khan's involvement with the Shipyards redevelopment. So it at least sounds like they are exploring it as a part of the overall development of the Shipyards.

[SunKing]

And the Hunter Museum preceded both.....Actually being in Chattanooga on foot and being told directly from the mayor, developers and other civic leaders about it being much more comprehensive, I'm going to take their word over that article. The aquarium was not a one trick pony that single handedly transformed Chattanooga. We're once again doing our community a huge disservice by attempting to sell such a tale and expecting an unrealistic outcome as the result.

Im sure it was well thought out and it has been extremely successful but it started with the aquarium.  You said the Walnut Street Bridge preceded the aquarium.  It didn't.

[thelakelander]

Sorry. I was factoring in the process and reconstruction, which dates back to the late 1980s.  According to a long time local developer, on one of the tours I participated in, this commitment resulted in private sector investment at the base of the bridge.

Since 1978, when it was closed to traffic for safety reasons after serving Chattanooga for 87 years, the Walnut Street Bridge sat disabled, deteriorating, dormant and yet another reminder of the city's decaying downtown. By the late 1980s, the city had taken steps to demolish the downtrodden bridge, but lacked the funding. Before officials could dismantle the bridge, however, a community campaign comprised of visionary activists, civic leaders and historic preservationists banded together to save the bridge, envisioning it as a vibrant pedestrian bridge that could help propel a downtown renaissance. After nominating the bridge as an historic landmark (1990), work began to raise the millions necessary to restore The Bridge as a pedestrian walkway, partially funded by a U.S. Department of Transportation grant and with the support of hundreds of thousands of dollars from Chattanoogans.

http://www.theparksfoundation.org/about.html

Nevertheless, it's irrelevant to the reality of the situation.  In Chattanooga, an aquarium was not placed in the middle of nowhere, only to magically sprout additional redevelopment on its own.  Specifically, they went through a visioning process, identified several projects and pulled together millions in private/private sector funding to get several projects started around the same time. Others include the visitors center, Creative Discovery Museum and the IMAX theater. This type of coordination (also successful with Baltimore's Inner Harbor) is what creates the vibe that builds pedestrian scale synergy which results in attracting additional infill and complementing development.  It really doesn't matter if we're talking about the Landing's redevelopment, a new convention center, a ship museum, movie theatre or aquarium, the key to success is the coordination and investment of complementing uses within a compact, pedestrian scale setting.  For some reason, Jax has a history for singling out parts of other community's plans and selling them as if they are a solution that will deliver similar synergy, even if isolated.