AAF NIMBY Group: Florida NOT All Aboard

[thelakelander]

Even privately financed rail projects have opposition.....



http://www.floridanotallaboard.com/

About

We are a grassroots group of citizens who have created this page to help facilitate communication and inform residents that are affected by All Aboard FL.


Description

Florida NOT All Aboard

What is All Aboard Florida? AAF, is an approved rail service using the existing Florida East Coast FEC railway.

How many trains are there? Each day 32 trains will pass through going between Orlando and Miami, West Palm and Fort Lauderdale.

How frequently will the trains be traveling? Each hour two trains will pass through the area everyday between 7am and ending at 11pm, 7 days a week.

What about the freight trains? The freight trains will also be traveling along the rail and are expected to stop to allow the passenger trains to pass. The combined number of trains is estimated to be greater 50 trains per day.

Where do the freight trains stop? It is not determined yet. The rail line bisects many roads, which may have possible impacts.

Will the railway bridge be open? Based on current operating speed, the bridge will be open less than 20 minutes each hour with the combination of AAF and freight trains. Mitigation plans indicate the speed of the bridge may increase, but the improvements have yet to be determined.

What happens to the intracoastal boating traffic? Boating will have to stop when the bridge is down.

What happens when the additional trains use the line? The amount of time the bridge is open becomes less. Possibly remaining closed during the day.

What about "bridge rage" from recreational boaters when the bridge opens? Is it not determined how this will be addressed. (Bridge rage is the frustration caused by the bridge being down, and becomes exasperated when multiple boats begin passing through a narrow opening in both directions in a short amount of time)

Doesn't navigational law require the drawbridge to open for passage? Yes. The bridge must promptly open when requested by signal.

How can AAF plan to run the high number of trains and meet the navigational laws? It is unclear how this can be met with the current bridge construction.

How fast will the trains travel? Speeds of 110 MPH between Jupiter and Cocoa Beach.

Can the trains travel that fast through our cities? It is unlikely to reach these speeds due to the congestion, intersections, curves, and bridges on the track.

What safeguards will be put into place? An environmental impact study is underway and mitigation plans have yet to be released.

How loud are the trains? Don't know... Quiet Zones are planned which mean the train horn is not required to blow.

What is the cost to upgrade to quiet zones? The cost for each county will depend on the number of crossing upgrades and is in the tens of thousands of dollars per crossing.

May we have to pay for improvements and not get any of the benefits? Yes

Why aren't the tracks out west used that go directly between West Palm Beach to Orlando? Good Question! Everyone want's to know, there is no information available.

How do I get more Information? Go to "Florida NOT All Board" facebook page to learn more.

What do I do to STOP this? Get Involved! Help spread the information to concerned citizens. Sign our petition on face book page.

What do I tell our elected officials? You can go to "Florida NOT All Aboard" facebook page and download letters to send your elected officials.

Here are your elected officials:
Governor Rick Scott www.flgov.com
Rep Patrick Murphy www.patrickmurphy.house.gov
Senator Marco Rubio www.rubio.senate.gov
Senator Bill Nelson www.billnelson.senate.gov
Fl Senator Joe Negron www.floridasenate.gov/senators/s32
Fl Senator Denise Grimsley www.floridasenate.gov/senators/s21
Fl Rep MaryLynn Magar www.myfloridahouse.gov
Fl Rep Gayle Harrell www.myfloridahouse.gov

Martin County Commissioners:
Doug Smith dsmith@martin.fl.us
Ed Fielding efieldin@martin.fl.us
Anne Scott ascott@martin.fl.us
Sarah Heard sheard@martin.fl.us
John Haddox jhaddox@martin.fl.us

St. Lucie County Commissioners:
Tod Mowery moweryt@stlucieco.org
Chris Dzadovsky dzadovskyc@stlucieco.org
Paula A. Lewis LewisP@stlucieco.org
Frannie Hutchinson hutchinsonf@stlucieco.org
Kim Johnson JohnsonKim@stlucieco.org

Indian River County Commissioners:
Wesley S. Davis wdavis@ircgov.com
Joseph E. Flescher jflescher@ircgov.com
Tim Zorc tzorc@ircgov.com
Peter D. O'Bryan pobryan@ircgov.com
Bob Solari bsolari@ircgov.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Florida-NOT-All-Aboard/216516735216658?id=216516735216658&sk=info

[spuwho]

The boating thing is a recent issue that was brought up.  FEC is actually looking at hiring bridge tenders since they are currently raised out of Jacksonville by remote.

Appears to be some gaps in their info thus far but I think they will all be answered.

Paying for the quiet zones is a compromise between the railroads and FDOT. It is true, if the locals want no horns they have to pay for it. At last report the locals were petitioning Tallahassee to pay for them.

I know that Broward County EMR was looking for funding for the equipment needed to handle a high speed derailment or wreck.

All issues that will need to be addressed.

[ProjectMaximus]

mostly fair concerns. seems very grassroots based on the website design and the typos in the FAQ

[ChriswUfGator]

Their concerns are legitimate, but not worth scrapping the project over. In fact they've already identified the solutions, enact horn-free quiet zones and hire a bridge tender. Hardly the end of the world.

[thelakelander]

What tracks out west? CSX? Easy answer. The FEC tracks are being used because they already own them.

[spuwho]

The root of most of the grumbling appears to be around the Treasure Coast area.

The FEC keeps the bridges "up" for the most part and doesn't lower them until 10 minutes prior to a trains arrival and raise them shortly after the EOT marker passes unless there is a meet nearby and then the bridge is kept down until the meeting train completes its pass. However, if you plan to increase the number of trains coming through each day then the bridges will be down longer and more frequently. This interferes with the number of boats that can pass freely to and from the ocean to their marinas.

However, there has been an ongoing under the table simmer about the length of certain FEC freights, some of which have kept the bridge down for as long as 30 minutes. This is disturbing the boating interests along the Treasure because as they put it, boating business will simply go elsewhere where there is less hassle. The other issue is when the bridge stays down for so long, it creates a boating bottleneck and they have had issues from time to time of 'boater rage' where everyone forgets their boating right of way and everyone tries to go first. This leads to a lot of bumping and mishaps and the follow up arguments.

In some ways I understand their issues and the railroad wants to be a good neighbor, but to complain because you just can't take your boat out "on demand" and can't time it around bridge up times (after all the railroad does publish schedules) seems to me a bit self focused and not paying attention to the world around them.

I picked up this article from the CBS affiliate.

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_13439.shtml

Residents and businesses mount protest to All Aboard Florida Rail service
Story by Jana Eschbach / CBS 12 NEWS

STUART, Fla. -- The new train service, 'All Aboard Florida', is getting plenty of opposition tonight from Treasure Coast communities.

Residents are fighting to move the new train service, they say will snarl traffic and even boat traffic.

"Things are starting to come back, but last summer we had issues with our river here, and now we potentially have issues with the new trains," said Bill Biggs of Riverwatch Marina.

Biggs is concerned boaters will be left waiting at the railroad track crossing for hours.

"Where they have ocean access now, they are going to have severely limited access," said Biggs.

To reach Riverwatch Marina in Stuart, you have to travel west past the railroad crossing under the US-1 Roosevelt Bridge.

Train traffic is set to increase in 2015 with All Aboard Florida, a new high speed passenger rail to connect Orlando to South Florida.

The train doesn't stop in Stuart, but more trains passing through, means boaters will have to wait longer to pass by the bridge that allows most Martin and St. Lucie County boaters to get to the ocean and back on the St. Lucie River.

"If you increase the traffic to the level they are talking about, the bridge will be closed most of the time and people just aren't going to wait, they will take their business elsewhere," Biggs said. "Right now, the minimum wait is a half hour."

Homeowners like KC Traylor in Palm City are not happy either.

"I'm shocked. Wait a minute. There's 32 additional trains coming in here everyday besides they are talking about 20 freight trains? So they are talking about 50 trains through all of our coastal communities," Traylor said.

'Florida NOT All Aboard' started a petition, just a group of residents up and down the coast that wanted to bring awareness, to let All Aboard Florida railways know, as well as our elected officials, this is not acceptable."

She's signed a new petition Not All Aboard Florida, asking the train travel through the center of the state instead.

Right now, The All Aboard Florida passenger rail project will connect South Florida to Orlando through a 240-mile route combining 200 miles of existing tracks between Miami and Cocoa, and the creation of 40 miles of new track to complete the route to Orlando.

Eventually the system may expand to connect to Tampa and Jacksonville as well.

"We are going to have to change our business plan in order to survive," Biggs said.

"With over 50 trains, and the bridge down for 20 minutes for each train, that's 18 hours that bridge will be down, and there's one in Jupiter the same way," Traylor said.

On their new website, one resident writes, "AAF will provide no benefits to the Treasure Coast Community and must be stopped in its tracks now. Please contact your state legislator to say NO to any funding of the AAF/ FECI project with our taxpayer monies. Speed safety issues; safety concerns for a grade level (ground level) track running through our towns; noise; traffic congestion problems; Environmental Justice; crossing gate construction and maintenance, preservation of our historic downtowns and historic districts; adverse construction impacts; hazardous material, usage and storage; negative impacts on wetlands and savannas, and water ways are all reasons why AAF and the proposed fast rail through the Treasure Coast must be stopped in its tracks now." - Anne Sinnott

All Aboard Florida's site states the project has economic and environmental benefits.

* Travel time: The new passenger rail service will transport passengers between downtown Miami and Orlando in approximately three hours.

* Schedule: All Aboard Florida will offer hourly service starting in the early morning with last departures in the evening. All Aboard Florida is also determining tailored schedules for special events and venues.

* Stations: Station design is advancing. The route will include stations in downtown Miami and Orlando, with intermediate stops in downtown Fort Lauderdale and downtown West Palm Beach. Stations will provide access to international airports, seaports and existing transit systems.

* Services and amenities: The new passenger rail service will provide premium amenities, including Wi-Fi internet service, gourmet meals, reserved seating, and will be fully equipped with easy-on/easy-off baggage compartments.

The approximately $1 billion project will operate on a regular schedule throughout the day, transporting passengers between South Florida and Orlando in approximately three hours. All Aboard Florida estimates it will create 6,000 direct jobs to construct the system and over 1,000 more jobs to operate and maintain it.

AllAboardFlorida  http://www.allaboardflorida.com

The Florida Rail Network snapshot: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/rail/Publications/Maps/FloridaRailMap2006.JPG

[JayBird]

I'm sure the same bridge issue will arise here if Jax ever gets commuter rail or Amtrak starts using FECs line. Though I'm sure that area down south probably has more recreational boat traffic.

[icarus]

As a previous boat owner, I've been in areas with heavy train traffic similar to what they are complaining about.

The railroad and the community agreed on a schedule.  At certain prescribed times throughout the day, the bridge would be open.  This allowed boat owners to schedule their arrivals and departures to correspond with the schedule. it cut down on the cost of having a permanent bridge tender and really made for a workable environment.

But, hey, we could always tear down their marina to make way for a new  highway overpass. lol.

[Ocklawaha]

Easy just install a giant crane at each bridge, lift the boats and their crews completely out of the water, up and over the roads, railroad, trains and tracks, then put them back..... Ahhh SHIT! dropped another one!

Must be the morphine!

[mbwright]

Sounds like an argument from about 1910.

[JayBird]

Easy just install a giant crane at each bridge, lift the boats and their crews completely out of the water, up and over the roads, railroad, trains and tracks, then put them back..... Ahhh SHIT! dropped another one!

Must be the morphine!

I really wanted to respond to this, bit cannot stop laughing. Nailed it Ock! 

[spuwho]

Martin County is going all out to make noise on AAF.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/martin-county-very-much-not-all-aboard-miami-orlando-rail-line

Fortunately, a exec from AAF is coming out to speak at the Martin County Chamber soon.

A lot of misinformation floating around, I hope the opposition can get some of their facts straight.

[thelakelander]

I just made a post in their discussion. Amtrak on the FEC probably isn't going to happen without AAF paying for much of the track infrastructure first. There's economic incentive even for Martin County because the project that will give them a rail station is piggybacking off of this one.  I think some of this is locals not being able to see the benefit of thinking and planning regionally.

[mtraininjax]

I'm sure the same bridge issue will arise here if Jax ever gets commuter rail or Amtrak starts using FECs line. Though I'm sure that area down south probably has more recreational boat traffic.

Just how much river traffic do you think we have now? No shipyards, no docks downtown, maybe a barge every once in a while from GCS or Palatka. Downtown is a ghost town for the most part, I'll be you the Acosta rail bridge sees less than 100 boats a day.

[tufsu1]

Martin County may very well be the most NIMBY place in Florida.  I get that they don;t want to end up like Pam Beach, Broward, or Miami-Dade Counties, but their general no growth stance is unreasonable.