Improvements in Riverside's 5 Points aim to attract foot traffic

[urbaknight]

If nothing else, all I really want to see are some truly "urban" sidewalks. What I mean by that is, wider sidewalks, and no strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street. Go to any "real city" and what you see are sidewalks that are wide enough for at least four people to walk side buy side, and that extends all the way to the curb.

[Josh]

RAP has sent out a teaser email before the plans are announced this week.

Here's an image perusal. Too large to embed.

https://d1wh43egtz3cgo.cloudfront.net/promotion_images/0627/8614/original/Tocknell%205%20pts%20plan%20C-1%200%20Overall%20Plan.jpg

[JayBird]

Here you go Josh

[Dog Walker]

From RAP this morning:     http://mad.ly/5de784?pact=20709288842&fe=1

5 points
5 Points Plan Nears Completion

At the RAP annual meeting on February 27, a plan for major changes in the Five Points area will be officially presented for the first time. As shown below, the plan covers three major intersections, segments of Margaret Street and Lomax Street, and two crosswalks.

The plan was funded by Riverside Avondale Preservation, Inc., with the Five Points Merchants Association as the primary stakeholder. The consulting team for the plan is being led by Tocknell Planning Services, with assistance from Envision Design + Engineering and the Flagg Design Studio,

The plan for functional and aesthetic improvements in the Five Points area is intended to advance the goal of Riverside Avondale Preservation for making our area the safest most walk-able neighborhood in Florida.

In July 2013, as the first step in the planning study, a walking tour was conducted of the Five Points area, involving RAP leadership, CM Jim Love and other public officials, and the consultants; along with Five Points merchants and other key stakeholders. Other outreach events conducted during the study included a Town Hall meeting at the Sun-Ray Cinema, and an unofficial presentation to area merchants.

In carrying out the study, participants have learned that vehicular traffic levels have remained stable in the Five Points area over the past five years, and that for this and other reasons, one or more of the existing vehicular travel lanes in the area may no longer be needed.

To create an environment in the area that would be safer and more attractive for churches, businesses, visitors, and residents, as well as for pedestrians, bicyclists, transit users, and drivers, the plan emphasizes walkability by promoting slower vehicle speeds, more room for pedestrians, and crosswalks that are shorter and more clearly marked. The plan would also expand the amount of space available for meeting and dining, while maintaining or expanding the number of on-street parking spaces. Landscaping and lighting improvements will also be included in the plan.

After the preliminary concept plan is presented at the RAP annual meeting, there will be a 30-day review and comment period before the plan is finalized. Upon the finalization of the plan, RAP intends to proceed directly into the design phase for two elements of the plan, i.e.:
* Lomax Street between Park Street and Oak Street, and
* The “Five Points” Intersection of Park Street, Margaret Street, and Lomax Street.

The Five Points Concept Plan study will also lead to the development of new roadway design guidelines. With the recent formation of a Context Sensitive Standards Committee by the city of Jacksonville, it can be expected that these guidelines will be used as a tool for developing new roadway design standards for all of the urban areas in the city, including not only Riverside and Avondale as a whole, but also downtown, Springfield, San Marco, and other areas.

[Kerry]

I can't wait to see the designs. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents at the 5 points intersection.

Intersection complexity actually reduces accidents by slowing traffic.  Anything that increase traffic speed is going to result in more accidents.  Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world. Converting streets to one-way maybe the worst idea yet because the wider traffic lanes and absence of on-coming traffic will increase speeds and one thing we all know - speed kills, not just literally, but figuratively as well.

[BoldBoyOfTheSouth]

Riverside 5Points and other areas such as Post Street and Edgewood Avenue really need proper redesigning to make our neighborhoods pedestrian and bicycle friendly.

[JayBird]

Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.

Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.

[Kerry]

Riverside 5Points and other areas such as Post Street and Edgewood Avenue really need proper redesigning to make our neighborhoods pedestrian and bicycle friendly.

With the pattern do this being so simple and widespread it makes you wonder why every consulting company makes it hard has hell.  I guess it like a recording artist trying to use someone else song.  While trying to make it their own they screw it up beyond recognition.  They just need to do what has been working for 10,000 years of human urbanization.

[JayBird]

Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.

[Kerry]

Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.

Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.

I'm sure about it.  Intersection that promote high-speed traffic moving at right angle to each other are far and away the most dangerous.  However, maybe it comes down to how we define 'dangerous'  A low impact glancing blow (like you might experience in a roundabout) or cars trying to leave a stop sign at the same time, are in my opinion far less dangerous than someone running a red light at 45 mph.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area. 
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point. 
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.

[JayBird]

Intersections controlled by a traffic light are the most dangerous form of intersection in the world.

Not sure about this. Intersections are the most dangerous area on the road I believe but I would think an intersection that used just flashing amber or red lights would be more dangerous. In my own experience I would actually say a four way stop is more dangerous than a light controlled intersection because either they don't teach "the vehicle to your right has right of way" or they just don't care.

I'm sure about it.  Intersection that promote high-speed traffic moving at right angle to each other are far and away the most dangerous.  However, maybe it comes down to how we define 'dangerous'  A low impact glancing blow (like you might experience in a roundabout) or cars trying to leave a stop sign at the same time, are in my opinion far less dangerous than someone running a red light at 45 mph.

If you're quantifying it by amount of damage/injury than hands down anything that is head on would be much worse than an intersection. But that would argue for one way streets, which I doubt.

If you measure by "events" than yes I firmly believe the intersection is by far the leader. Obviously. Most accidents are caused when someone crosses the path of another vehicle. And that's exactly what intersections do. However, to say that one with a light is more dangerous than one without? Now that you're actually gonna have to back up with proof. I'm not a civil architect but just from my driving experience that doesn't seem true. But I could always be wrong.

[JayBird]

I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area. 
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point. 
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.

We argued for them to be installed in Eagle Harbor a few years ago. Now, as they're being damaged or need repair they're not being replaced because they're cost prohibitive to actually getting motorists to yield. They found what does work is asking the sheriff cars to drive through more often and actively warn/ticket offenders. If you have a Florida license, you know the law.

EDIT- what also seems to work very well are the "flashing" pedestrian signs and crosswalks but I imagine those are pretty pricey plus would need some sort of power source.

Kerry is right in that you need to slow people down. That will lessen car accidents and make bike and pedestrian access safer.

[Josh]

I would really like to see the "FL state law yield to pedestrians" signs at every crosswalk in the area. 
St. Augustine has had these for a while and San Marco has them now, so not sure why they're not all over 5 Points and the rest of Riverside/Avondale at this point. 
It's kind of an obvious message, but since Jax is such a deadly city for pedestrians, these things really should be EVERYWHERE.

The reason to date why they have not been installed at "The Shoppes" or 5-Points is because they are not historic.....

That map concept above does show something going on at the crosswalk in the middle of Park St, so maybe they're finally coming around.

[PeeJayEss]

Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.

I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.