Is Springfield a viable retail market?

[gatorback]

Pigs are flying

[thelakelander]

If I could play mediator here (it is a stretch, I know), I think Stephen and Lake are talking past each other here.  Stephen primarily wants the Springfield stretch of Main Street to be a cool, hip commercial extension of Springfield which aids the neighborhood's resurgence.  Lake wants this too but he is more interested in the strip being rejuvenated than with exactly what will be the mix of end users and their customers.  Both have good ideas but slightly different goals. 

Anyway, I think there is room for both visions on Main but there is not room for both visions, and Section 8 housing, crack ho's, crazies, etc.  Main Street needs to be cleaned up for the surrounding communities and to draw in suburbanites IMO.  It will have to be a gradual process involving a lot of patience though.  Unfortunately, in some cases we will just have to wait out these slum lords and pawn shops.  Eventually they will die or retire and the buildings will be sold to someone with class and good taste.  Just keep the faith in the meantime and keep your noses to the grindstones.

the world can officially end now, lake.
River is making more sense than either of us, and is acting as the cool head and a mediator.

And you are right of course, River, thanks for interjecting some clarity.

I'm not hot, it was just a good old fashioned debate.  Anyway, I had a whole response typed and ready to go before reading the last post.  I deleted it because River is right in that we're talking about two different things.  You're focusing on a smaller specific market (like a retailer) and I'm focusing on an overall grand scheme that's larger than the neighborhood (like a planner). 

The scene along Louisville's Bardstown Road will give you a better example of what I've been envisioning.  Let me go ahead and upload the images.

[thelakelander]

Bardstown Road images - Louisville, KY

This is a +4 four mile stretch through a number of neighborhoods with a diverse collection of businesses in a pedestrian friendly area a few miles from Downtown Louisville.  There's a mix of old and new, urban and suburban, local and chain stores.  If applied to Main, this length would go from the Landing to the Trout River. 












With this concept, there's room for everybody of all cultures and races.  Notice, even the chain's like McDonald's enhance the scene by offering outdoor seating.

[gatorback]

god those power lines are hidious.  But, yes, that's springfield in a few years I'm sure.

[thelakelander]

Just goes to show, vibrant districts are not about streetscapes, brick pavers and palm trees.

[gatorback]

does your plan include BRT lanes in both directions?  please so no no no.

[thelakelander]

I was thinking elevated BRT.  You'll ride it and you'll do so with a smile on your face. Gas will soon be $20 a gallon and everyone will be giving away their kids away to jump on one of our futuristic buses.

[sheclown]

  Eventually they will die or retire and the buildings will be sold to someone with class and good taste.  Just keep the faith in the meantime and keep your noses to the grindstones.

Did I say "class war?"

[sheclown]

& as I recall from my visits to Boomtown, that place was fun, funky, WELCOMING, diverse, but I don't think anyone could say it had "good taste."

[fsujax]

Well, we already have the Kentucky Fried Chicken and a McDonalds on 8th St, so I would say we are well on our way.......to becoming like those pictures you posted Lake.  I do agree with Riverside, we have got to get Main St cleaned up. The landscpaing is nice, but that alone will not attract businesses, just look at A Phillip Randolph as an example.

[thelakelander]

I think everyone agrees that it could use some clean up.  The streetscape, when its complete, should help with the visual image, but more emphasis will need to be placed on marketing and financing solutions for business and property owners to renovate their structures and buy into some sort of idea that sets Main Street apart from the rest of the city.  In Louisville, Bardstown Road's unique signage, architectural diversity and buildings (both suburban and urban) properly addressing the sidewalk with pedestrian friendly concepts helps give that corridor a unique feel. 

For example, we have Jim Brown's and 9th & Main on one corner.  Both are assets to the community, but the visual feel and environment of that corner would feel completely different if both had outdoor dining sections.  The same goes for Carl's and Chan's.  Right now, with the construction, its understandable that this isn't the case, but when the streetscape is complete, either SPAR, SAMBA or both should have a plan in place that encourages existing and new businesses to invest in pedestrian friendly things like creative business signage, facade lighting and outdoor dining, etc.

Stephen mentioned earlier that foot traffic was low.  We'll no one should expect high foot traffic in a place that doesn't give pedestrians much reason to be there.  People attract people, so if we could start with helping the existing businesses better embrace the sidewalks, that would be a strong move in the direction of building up foot traffic.

[sheclown]

I think everyone agrees that it could use some clean up.  The streetscape, when its complete, should help with the visual image, but more emphasis will need to be placed on marketing and financing solutions for business and property owners to renovate their structures and buy into some sort of idea that sets Main Street apart from the rest of the city.  In Louisville, Bardstown Road's unique signage, architectural diversity and buildings (both suburban and urban) properly addressing the sidewalk with pedestrian friendly concepts helps give that corridor a unique feel. 

For example, we have Jim Brown's and 9th & Main on one corner.  Both are assets to the community, but the visual feel and environment of that corner would feel completely different if both had outdoor dining sections.  The same goes for Carl's and Chan's.  Right now, with the construction, its understandable that this isn't the case, but when the streetscape is complete, either SPAR, SAMBA or both should have a plan in place that encourages existing and new businesses to invest in pedestrian friendly things like creative business signage, facade lighting and outdoor dining, etc.

Stephen mentioned earlier that foot traffic was low.  We'll no one should expect high foot traffic in a place that doesn't give pedestrians much reason to be there.  People attract people, so if we could start with helping the existing businesses better embrace the sidewalks, that would be a strong move in the direction of building up foot traffic.

[sheclown]

oops.

Lakelander, outdoor dining is a great idea! How could the community encourage the owners of these places to do this?  Nothing tells the world that people think the area is safe like people relaxing in front of it, out in the open.  There would have to be a fund to pay the regulars (like Jimmy for example) to stay away from the customers.  Nothing would scare an outsider more than Jimmy walking up and screaming CIGARETTE!  But, I'll bet $10.00 a day would keep him away. 

Other than the Jimmy-factor, it is a great idea.

[thelakelander]

I think are multiple ways to deal with the Jimmys of Springfield and Downtown.  These include everything from police patrol on foot to outdoor dining screened with fences or planters.  I have two images I want to show of sidewalk cafes in Toronto and Philly that use landscaping and plants as buffers, but I'm away from my home computer.  However, here are a few that have been posted in comparison threads on this site.

[RiversideGator]

  Eventually they will die or retire and the buildings will be sold to someone with class and good taste.  Just keep the faith in the meantime and keep your noses to the grindstones.

Did I say "class war?"

I was referring to class which cannot be purchased, not middle, working or upper class.