Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[theduvalprogressive]

I agree Stephen. I think it is unfortunate that southerners are fixated with perpetuating and trying to mitigate the actions of Forrest or the cause of the Civil War as if that is all that was honorable about Southern history.

[Sgarey123]

I get it guys.  According to you all then one culture is superior to the other. The founding ideals behind Civil Rights are only for certain approved groups. 

Just go ahead and say that it is a double standard.  Tolerance, diversity, understanding, equality, and acceptance do not apply for Confederates and natives.  It only applies when "real" minorities want something.

I have watched my whole life while history keeps getting revised. It seems that revision also has a double standard.  It only works for "real" minorities and not for Confederates and natives.  Even though there is clear proof of Black confederates they are not allowed to be claimed because that just does not work for those alienating and vilifying the South. 

Black Americans are not victims anymore. They are a growing group of people and not all of them have Al Sharpton politics. Many love there local cultures and history just as they are.  It seems however that now that Black Americans are in charge that we can just cast aside things written in stone and make up new rules for everything.  That is what renaming this school will mean. It is what renaming the park in Memphis meant too.  It is not the right path for a unified and peaceful nation. It is the wrong path to walk down.  I hope the new school board and Vitti read this post because if they vote it to be renamed then they are saying everything I have said above to the Citizens of Jacksonville and the Nation.

Leaving the school name as it is would be proof of a unified and far seeing management rather than a reactionary mob pleasing one.  The wise and sage board and superintendent would look unbiased and fair for all citizens regardless of type.   

Just go ahead and say it. One is okay and the other is not.  The new shall cast away the decisions of the past.  Let the progress begin! No history allowed.

[thelakelander]

I get it guys.  According to you all then one culture is superior to the other.

No. I've been under the assumption that this was your position based off your comments in the previous 18 pages of this thread. Here's a few old quotes that led me to this assumption.

Divisive for who? The only reason NBF's name is under question is because someone allowed it to be marketed that way. This is the result of a marketing/political campaign that is not helping children or people.

Racist? The only people making all this about race are those who find it offensive.  They are creating the division. History does not change. They were simply taught to believe the wrong things.Their offense and ignorance do not trump blood in the soil, our historical identity, or the facts of the matter. Even if they take the name away it will not change history....

I do not really believe that the informed or truly native Black Americans find this offensive. If they did they would not seek out the neighborhoods assigned to schools named after confederates to live.  They know where they live and know it is also part of their culture too.

You have no basis to rename this school. If it does get re-named and it is not named after a confederate then it is racism at work. Period. Again I would love to see it renamed to a Black confederate's name. That would teach the kids that Southern describes them as well.

If you name it after another Confederate at least it does not seem like you are attacking our Culture.

It is everyone's culture that lives in Jacksonville...if you do not identify with it then that is a shame. However it is still your culture. Renaming is the wrong thing to do.

What I've based my opinion on this topic isn't about the Confederacy. For me, it's about the selection of Forrest (no relation to Jax and a highly divisive character then) as a form of giving a middle finger to the idea of desegregation.  We were a better community then and we're certainly a better more well rounded community now.

[Cheshire Cat]

If the meme fits, share it! 

[JayBird]

^  Nailed it!

[Sgarey123]

I was going to say Lakelander should win the award for all time worse comeback but then The Chesire Cat showed her lack of intelligence and basic misunderstanding of the entire discussion with that picture.  Pretty sad folks.

You should be questioning yourselves and your own values at this point.  So I guess she is right....she has joined up with the KKK as an intolerant old lady.  Again trying to bury my post in cr@p posts that play to the ignorant.

Nice site folks.  It must be horrifying to realize you are exactly what you hate. Bigots.

[thelakelander]

This thread is turning pretty sad. I'm just glad it appears a renaming is in the works. 

[JayBird]

This thread is turning pretty sad. I'm just glad it appears a renaming is in the works.

Amen.

[kbhanson3]

I get it guys.  According to you all then one culture is superior to the other. The founding ideals behind Civil Rights are only for certain approved groups. 

Just go ahead and say that it is a double standard.  Tolerance, diversity, understanding, equality, and acceptance do not apply for Confederates and natives.  It only applies when "real" minorities want something.

I have watched my whole life while history keeps getting revised. It seems that revision also has a double standard.  It only works for "real" minorities and not for Confederates and natives.  Even though there is clear proof of Black confederates they are not allowed to be claimed because that just does not work for those alienating and vilifying the South. 

Black Americans are not victims anymore. They are a growing group of people and not all of them have Al Sharpton politics. Many love there local cultures and history just as they are.  It seems however that now that Black Americans are in charge that we can just cast aside things written in stone and make up new rules for everything.  That is what renaming this school will mean. It is what renaming the park in Memphis meant too.  It is not the right path for a unified and peaceful nation. It is the wrong path to walk down.  I hope the new school board and Vitti read this post because if they vote it to be renamed then they are saying everything I have said above to the Citizens of Jacksonville and the Nation.

Leaving the school name as it is would be proof of a unified and far seeing management rather than a reactionary mob pleasing one.  The wise and sage board and superintendent would look unbiased and fair for all citizens regardless of type.   

Just go ahead and say it. One is okay and the other is not.  The new shall cast away the decisions of the past.  Let the progress begin! No history allowed.

Wow. I'm starting to think that he actually has no clue just how racist his statements and views really are.  Sounds like he thinks Confederates & natives (that's code for white folk) are the victims here.  Very sad.

This southern white folk is 100% in favor of acknowledging history, both for its positives and its negatives.  And for renaming the school so we can move forward in a very non-Confederate kind of way, since that war ended 150 years ago and the Confederates lost, etc. Get over it!  Move on!

[Cheshire Cat]

Actually Sgarey, you missed the point entirely, once again.  The real message was the one about "shutting up". That went right over your head. LMAO You have told us the same bunch of nonsense over and over and over again.  Turned the coat of history inside out in an effort to make real your version of historical events which attempts to portray your murderous idol Nathan B. Forrest as a war hero. Somehow you can't understand why everyone here is not buying the nonsense you are dishing up. You have failed to persuade anyone to your way of thinking with your rant's and fanatical statements. Now you have fallen further and further into a defensive posture that has you making the most ridiculous declarations about every person on this forum who has an opinion and view different than your own.  Perhaps one of the most desperate series of rant's I have seen in quite some time. Time for you to hush, there is nothing you can say that will add anything positive to this dialog and my guess is I am not the only one tired of hearing you dance around the history of Jacksonville and the south on a thread about renaming a school, which will happen whether you like it or not.  That's the bottom line so time to give it up already. Jeeze! 

[Cheshire Cat]

kbhanson3.  Apparently we were posting about the same time with similar sentiments.  You beat me to the punch.  I agree that it is well past time for Sgarey to get over it.

[Tacachale]

Sgarey123, I think one of the things that folks are having a hard time with is that you're framing this as a discussion about local culture and history, but you don't seem to be all that familiar with it. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but from your posts it appears you were unfamiliar with the Confederate Monument in Hemming Plaza, one of the best known and most visible historical structures in the city. Meanwhile, you're arguing that the name of a general from Tennessee should be preserved because it represents Jacksonville history.

Your description of the monument is somewhat off. To my knowledge, the statue at the top of the monument doesn't depict JJ Dickinson or anyone in particular, it just represents Florida's Confederate soldiers. In fact, according to your link, it would definitely not be Dickinson, as the soldier's cap says "'J.L.I.', representing the Jacksonville Light Infantry". Dickinson was a cavalryman in the 2nd Florida Cavalry.

Dickinson's image does appear at the base of the monument, as does one of Edmund Kirby Smith. Both men were notable Confederate soldiers from Florida, and Dickinson was the head of the Florida United Confederate Veterans. A third image has a general Confederate Army scene; according to your link it shows Lee and Stonewall Jackson (I didn't remember that). Overall, though, the monument is dedicated specifically to Florida Confederates.

The monument was placed in 1898 (not "the 1910's, 1920's etc."). Obviously at this time the Civil War was a still a living memory; in fact it was unveiled during a Florida Confederate reunion. It was also a time when the old guard had returned to power and downplayed the significance of Unionists in our state. Incidentally, Jacksonville also has one of the state's only Union monuments, placed in 1891 in Evergreen Cemetery. Like the Confederate Monument (and unlike Forrest High School), it commemorates local soldiers.

[Sgarey123]

If you want folks to "hush" then why are you on a public forum?  The fact you think I do not have the right to post shows that your intolerance is growing.  How bitter can you be?

Let me ask, how long have you studied the KKK? You all seem obsessed with it. The funniest thing is they do not even exist in Jacksonville! I learned that from this board. I had no idea.

I am merely a person that is standing at the gates trying to hold back the mob from taking away a piece of our culture. You guys are for renaming. You are making a change. You are the attackers. Name the new schools whatever you want. Leave the ones named alone.

I seldom go on the offensive because I adhere to the ideal that this discussion can be intellectual.  I want to discuss this problem logically and thoroughly. I want to change your minds. I want the School board to do the right thing. That is why I addressed each problem you had individually.  They are all resolved and have been answered 10 times now (by more people than me too). It is sad.

I realize you all refuse to hear logic but I am not prepared to walk away and let you storm the castle.  I will keep posting. At the very least you will figure out that what you are supporting is hurting people, creating division, and invalidating ideals. You are going to hurt the children by supporting this action. It is sad.

Please proceed to dig up every racist picture you can find on the internet and post it. Those pictures have nothing to do with me and every thing to do with you.  It is the only information you all have brought to the table to support changing the name. It is very sad.

Take a break and think about this thread. Go back and read my posts. You will see inclusion, tolerance, and preservation in every word. Isn't that what you all want? Everyone else has given up on you all. I still think you can change your minds and regain your respect. You can be happy.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was an admirable man. A man who deserves to be studied. A man who deserves to have a high school named after him.  He represents a leader in the South at a time when mayhem was rampant. Research him and spend some time looking for good things instead of bad. Do it for the children and you will be glad after it is all over.

[Sgarey123]

Tacahale,

Please do us all a favor and go down there and read the statue.  You will see. 

[Tacachale]

Tacahale,

Please do us all a favor and go down there and read the statue.  You will see.

I will see what? I've read the dedication "to the Soldiers of Florida."

This image of an infantryman:



...is not a statue of cavalryman JJ Dickinson, who is depicted in this relief:



Both the image of Dickinson and this one of Edmund Kirby Smith:



...depict people from Florida. This is a monument to Florida Confederates, erected in living memory of the war, during a reunion of Florida Confederate veterans. This is quite a bit different than the Forrest High School situation.

Pics from http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMA5R3_Confederate_Memorial_1861_1865_Jacksonville_FL