Speculative homes planned for historic Springfield

[Bill Hoff]

1900 blocks of Perry & Hubbard.

[Scrub Palmetto]

I really don't mind "faux historic" buildings in principle, especially when it's of basic housing that is vernacular or relatively simple in form and details. Consider how well some of the faux colonial houses fit in in St. Augustine... a lot of tourists think they're looking at something built in 1814 when it was really 1964. It's a relatively easy stylistic vocabulary to get (mostly) right, and as a result, the city appears to have far more "colonial" structures than the 30 or so authentic ones that have survived to present.

What I do mind, and frankly don't understand, is when designers of what's supposed to be contextually sensitive infill so often bungle the scale, dimensions, and proportions of the building and its various components. It definitely goes uncanny valley enough that you wonder why they even tried. It just doesn't seem that hard, but maybe it's a matter of experience and background. I know certain eras of American architecture well enough that I can imitate them on 'paper' (or Sketchup, etc.) pretty darn well and know when something is 'off'. Some designers/builders are great at this. As long as Springfield can attract those who are, bring it on. Some of these designers, though, need a few more years of being out in the field sketching historic buildings before they're allowed to design variations, but that's just my humble opinion.

[Tony B]

Love that it's starting North of 8th.

Any idea what the construction timetable is?

I disagree that it's going to damage the value of the existing historic stock. I think the opposite will happen; adding quality infill with good neighbors will make the area a more attractive place to live. That will increase property values. Increased property values will make it financially viable to restore historic structures thereby saving them. 

Rent vs Sell - right now you'll get a better return on capital renting out property than selling it.  As soon as that equation changes these houses will be for sale.

1900 blocks of Perry & Hubbard.

[Tony B]

Faux- historic is going to be likely more attractive to a more-money-than-time professional person that doesn't want to deal with the personality quirks of an authentic historic house and would rather live in a modern low maint house but is attracted to the personality of a historic neighborhood. 

The SRG and Low Country houses remind me of the retro-styled modern cars; Mini Cooper, Mustang, VW Bug. They have the style and positive personality traits of the originals but without the negatives.

^This is something I don't understand. Is there some code or regulation that's requiring the homes to be "faux-historic", or is it just what the builders want to do? If it's the latter, that will certainly change when tastes do, hopefully sooner than later. If it's the former, we need to do something about it.

Builders want to make money. In general, they don't care whether the project is urban, suburban, faux-historic or modern. This basically boils down to time is money and it's a much easier path to get an approved COA from COJ going faux-historic.  Until that changes, don't expect much from building community.

[thelakelander]

^It's not uncommon to find a great mix in housing styles in many popular historic districts across the country.

In general, I believe it comes down to cost for both the developer and buyer, moreso than design style.  For every person looking for a faux-historic looking house, you have one that wouldn't mind a different style within the same urban setting. A good chunk of the population tends to make purchases based on value, amenities, convenience and attraction to a certain area or atmosphere.  By the same token, many developers create products that are easy to get approved, while being cost effective enough to maximize profits.  In Jax, it's much easier to not rock the boat, if you're not interested in doing just that.

[peestandingup]

Sorry, but development & speculation are part of what did this neighborhood in. More of that isn't gonna solve the major underlying issues. At this point, this place needs organic growth, cheap storefront rents & cheap housing, with programs to get these homes in the hands of people who want to actually live in them.

Trying to raise prices artificially, when the neighborhood clearly isn't ready for that, is a recipe for more of the same stagnation.

[thelakelander]

Infill development is also a component of organic growth. Nothing happened in this neighborhood that didn't happen across the city and the rest of the country.  There are very little negatives, if any, to having new housing built on current abandoned and overgrown lots.  More people living within a compact area actually improves market conditions for commercial opportunities.

[peestandingup]

Infill development is also a component of organic growth. Nothing happened in this neighborhood that didn't happen across the city and the rest of the country.

Oh, not quite like Springfield though. Seriously, they were asking $200K for places that were being held together with termites. Basically zero value, all speculation.

[jason_contentdg]

Certainly there is room for both faux historic and modern homes in Springfield, and from talking to numerous people I know there is certainly a large sector that is looking for something modern, sustainable, and different from what's available in our urban core. I think a trip up to east atlanta for a tour of what is essentially Springfield, except the current infill has a large mix of modern homes next to vintage historic and newer traditional homes, would be very interesting and a pretty darn good photo essay could come out of it. Ennis, want to talk about it?

I just think Springfield has an excellent opportunity to be different than the other core neighborhoods - and it can actually be the turning point. Developers coming in and only building faux historic has been done over and over again and Springfield hasn't turned the corner yet (and I know there are other issues out there). Why not try and give the potential buyer something different?

[Duvaltopia]

Great news. I love the old houses. And I love the new infill houses. And I'd like some modern designs thrown into the mix as well. Bring it all on! (Sorry, I know this bucks the metrojax supertrend of bitching about absolutely everything).

Now lets work on a real coffee shop and some casual restaurants to Main Street.

Let's brainstorm here....Carmine's. Bold Bean Coffee. French Pantry. Taco Lu.

[thelakelander]

Certainly there is room for both faux historic and modern homes in Springfield, and from talking to numerous people I know there is certainly a large sector that is looking for something modern, sustainable, and different from what's available in our urban core. I think a trip up to east atlanta for a tour of what is essentially Springfield, except the current infill has a large mix of modern homes next to vintage historic and newer traditional homes, would be very interesting and a pretty darn good photo essay could come out of it. Ennis, want to talk about it?

Sounds good to me. Atlanta is one of those cities where you can find a decent mix of housing styles integrated into revitalizing historic districts.


Atlanta's Old 4th Ward

[Bill Hoff]

Good discussion. Here's some other thoughts too:
http://www.myspringfield.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2391

I suppose it's subjective.

[mtraininjax]

1200 to 1400 rents......in Springfield?

From Rentometer dot com:

Your results are based on average rents in 32206:
(30) 3-bedroom rentals
...in a 0.45 mile radius.
Median rent: $795
Average rent: $885

(28) 4-bedroom rentals
...in a 1.17 mile radius.
Median rent: $973
Average rent: $1087

I know Alex and Gregg from JWB, good, smart people! Their mentor is a great one and they have done some amazing things with houses all over town. We will see if they can "Push" the market up with these dwellings and raise the values. They will probably all look very similar, because JWB sees great economies of scale when they can use the same paint, same materials, same plans. Plus it also makes it easier on workers to know what they are building every day, week and month.

When I rent to people I don't look at 3x their GROSS income, I use a multiplier of 4x Gross. So a 1400 dollar rental requires that the "household" earn at least $5600 in Gross income. When times get tough, I don't care if the loan sharks are after you, JEA is threatening to cut off the power, or your mama needs a loan, I am the first payment to be made. I have the power to kick you out and put the rent damages on your credit for 10 years. I am the most important payment you will ever make!

[I-10east]

(Sorry, I know this bucks the metrojax supertrend of bitching about absolutely everything).

There are definitely some reasonable people on MJ, but certainly there's still many 'TU-like' antagonists who will find a reason to complain about everything, even positive things to the city. So I tend to agree with you; Although to be fair, it was even worse a couple of years ago than it is now.   

[John P]

1200 to 1400 rents......in Springfield?

From Rentometer dot com:

Your results are based on average rents in 32206:
(30) 3-bedroom rentals
...in a 0.45 mile radius.
Median rent: $795
Average rent: $885

(28) 4-bedroom rentals
...in a 1.17 mile radius.
Median rent: $973
Average rent: $1087

I know Alex and Gregg from JWB, good, smart people! Their mentor is a great one and they have done some amazing things with houses all over town. We will see if they can "Push" the market up with these dwellings and raise the values. They will probably all look very similar, because JWB sees great economies of scale when they can use the same paint, same materials, same plans. Plus it also makes it easier on workers to know what they are building every day, week and month.

When I rent to people I don't look at 3x their GROSS income, I use a multiplier of 4x Gross. So a 1400 dollar rental requires that the "household" earn at least $5600 in Gross income. When times get tough, I don't care if the loan sharks are after you, JEA is threatening to cut off the power, or your mama needs a loan, I am the first payment to be made. I have the power to kick you out and put the rent damages on your credit for 10 years. I am the most important payment you will ever make!

mtra there are higher rentals than that in Springfield