Are We Poised for a War in Syria?

[Cheshire Cat]

And those on the receiving end of American involvement are saying "no".

Qasioun Mountain, a symbol of Damascus and Syria, is home to many security and military buildings and institutions and thus is expected to be one of the targets for the airstrikes. Protesters rallying beside the place called themselves a "human shield" and hold banners featuring slogans such as "No more American bombing democracy" and "Hands off Syria".

"We are here to express our loyalty to our country in the face of American threats. We don't want what they did in Iraq over chemical weapons claims to be done in our country," one of the rally participants told RT.

http://rt.com/news/syria-activists-us-bombing-380/

CC... you realize in a civil war there are usually at least two sides... one side supporting the current regime (your picture) and those who do not... most of them are in refugee camps

Certainly I realize this and that realization is just another aspect to my feeling that the U.S. does not belong in the civil war going on in Syria.  We don't know what they really see as the best outcome for their country and they need to decide how much of their own blood they are willing to spill to find out.

The United States had to face down it's own internal conflicts that ended in the Civil War that cost us over 600,000 lives.  The only people who could save us from ourselves was us.  The same thing holds true for Syria.  They need to deal with their own internal conflicts.  We cannot force an outcome and have that be a lasting solution.  The outcomes that last are born from within. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

And those on the receiving end of American involvement are saying "no".

Qasioun Mountain, a symbol of Damascus and Syria, is home to many security and military buildings and institutions and thus is expected to be one of the targets for the airstrikes. Protesters rallying beside the place called themselves a "human shield" and hold banners featuring slogans such as "No more American bombing democracy" and "Hands off Syria".

"We are here to express our loyalty to our country in the face of American threats. We don't want what they did in Iraq over chemical weapons claims to be done in our country," one of the rally participants told RT.

http://rt.com/news/syria-activists-us-bombing-380/

CC... you realize in a civil war there are usually at least two sides... one side supporting the current regime (your picture) and those who do not... most of them are in refugee camps

+1000

[Cheshire Cat]

And those on the receiving end of American involvement are saying "no".

Qasioun Mountain, a symbol of Damascus and Syria, is home to many security and military buildings and institutions and thus is expected to be one of the targets for the airstrikes. Protesters rallying beside the place called themselves a "human shield" and hold banners featuring slogans such as "No more American bombing democracy" and "Hands off Syria".

"We are here to express our loyalty to our country in the face of American threats. We don't want what they did in Iraq over chemical weapons claims to be done in our country," one of the rally participants told RT.

http://rt.com/news/syria-activists-us-bombing-380/

CC... you realize in a civil war there are usually at least two sides... one side supporting the current regime (your picture) and those who do not... most of them are in refugee camps

Certainly I realize this and that realization is just another aspect to my feeling that the U.S. does not belong in the civil war going on in Syria.  We don't know what they really see as the best outcome for their country and they need to decide how much of their own blood they are willing to spill to find out.

The United States had to face down it's own internal conflicts that ended in the Civil War that cost us over 600,000 lives.  The only people who could save us from ourselves was us.  The same thing holds true for Syria.  They need to deal with their own internal conflicts.  We cannot force an outcome and have that be a lasting solution.  The outcomes that last are born from within. 

Got to love "creative" cut and posting above that focuses only on "part" of what was a complete dialog.     Here is the totality of my conversation with a "competent" individual. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

And those on the receiving end of American involvement are saying "no".

Qasioun Mountain, a symbol of Damascus and Syria, is home to many security and military buildings and institutions and thus is expected to be one of the targets for the airstrikes. Protesters rallying beside the place called themselves a "human shield" and hold banners featuring slogans such as "No more American bombing democracy" and "Hands off Syria".

"We are here to express our loyalty to our country in the face of American threats. We don't want what they did in Iraq over chemical weapons claims to be done in our country," one of the rally participants told RT.

http://rt.com/news/syria-activists-us-bombing-380/

CC... you realize in a civil war there are usually at least two sides... one side supporting the current regime (your picture) and those who do not... most of them are in refugee camps

Certainly I realize this and that realization is just another aspect to my feeling that the U.S. does not belong in the civil war going on in Syria.  We don't know what they really see as the best outcome for their country and they need to decide how much of their own blood they are willing to spill to find out.

The United States had to face down it's own internal conflicts that ended in the Civil War that cost us over 600,000 lives.  The only people who could save us from ourselves was us.  The same thing holds true for Syria.  They need to deal with their own internal conflicts.  We cannot force an outcome and have that be a lasting solution.  The outcomes that last are born from within. 

Got to love "creative" cut and posting above that focuses only on "part" of what was a complete dialog.     Here is the totality of my conversation with a "competent" individual. 

Here is the totality of my conversation with a "competent" individual. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

(CNN) -- British military scientists found traces of sarin gas in soil and clothing taken from a patient treated near the site of an alleged chemical weapons attack outside Syria's capital, the prime minister's office said Thursday.

Scientists at the Porton Down military laboratory concluded the samples were unlikely to have been faked, and Britain is sharing its findings with the United Nations, the office said.

The revelation is the most specific statement by British officials regarding the chemical they believe was used in the August 21 attack on a rebel stronghold near Damascus, though the office didn't explicitly say who was responsible. U.S. officials have, blaming Syrian government forces for an attack they say left more than 1,400 people dead, many of them children.

The British statement is not the first allegation that sarin gas -- an extremely volatile nerve agent that can kill -- has been used in Syria's gruesome, two-year civil war.  http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/05/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html

[Ajax]

1. Did you ever ask yourself why Assad would use chemical weapons? Yes he knows the Civil War isn't going away anytime soon. He used the Chemical Weapons feeling he has Big Brother Iran and Russia on his side that the Americans are not going to bomb his country? 2. Can you imagine a scenario where al Quaeda militants. I hope you don't believe these none humans over President Obama? 3. UN wasn't able to definitively say who launched the chemical attack. The UN has it's own agenda they want everybody to hold hands and sing? We are the World?

1.  That doesn't make sense to me.  But I guess if Assad is a madman it wouldn't have to make sense to anyone. 
2.  I don't know who to believe.  I believe that Obama and Kerry and the rest of the US government have demonstrated a willingness to lie to push an agenda.  I know that Putin is a liar.  And I don't doubt that Assad and the al Qaeda militants are liars.  So I don't know who to believe in this scenario.
3.  Yes, the UN has its own agenda.  So does the US - it's usually about money.  Even the Pope said that military strikes would be futile and there are other ways to handle this.  But he's got his own agenda too. 

[Ajax]

Anyone one think Russia's leadership will back off their support of Syria?  Is it worth finding out?

Exactly.  And I think the Chinese are sending a couple of ships over too. 

[Ajax]

Do they revoke Nobel Peace prizes for inciting WWIII?

They damn well should. 

Let's be honest, they shouldn't have given it in the first place.

And to be very truthful it is worth remembering that Obama did not himself think he deserved the prize and said as much.

I think the Nobel Committee awarded him the prize as an attempt to paint him into a corner.  I think they thought a little too highly of themselves and figured "if we make him a Nobel Peace Prize winner he wouldn't dare escalate any wars."  Suckas. 

[Ajax]

Then there are the "questionable" rebel fighters, likely embedded with many an Al Qaeda terrorist among others.  They are not all about fighting for freedom and the brutality they bring to this war is frankly as chilling as that being meted out by Assad.  Anyone who is pretending that letting the rebel forces take control is going to make things better might be "horribly" mistaken.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

"For fifty years, they are companions to corruption," he said. "We swear to the Lord of the Throne, that this is our oath: We will take revenge."

The moment the poem ended, the commander, known as "the Uncle," fired a bullet into the back of the first prisoner's head. His gunmen followed suit, promptly killing all the men at their feet.

This scene, documented in a video smuggled out of Syria a few days ago by a former rebel who grew disgusted by the killings, offers a dark insight into how many rebels have adopted some of the same brutal and ruthless tactics as the regime they are trying to overthrow.

I saw a video last night of a couple of kids being executed for supporting Assad.  They looked to be about 12 years old.  Kerry himself said that about 20% of the rebels are al Qaeda, so you can be sure the number is higher.  But even if it's 20%...these are the people our soldiers are going to be fighting alongside?  Oh that's right, we won't have any boots on the ground.  Ha.  Good one.

[Cheshire Cat]

Then there are the "questionable" rebel fighters, likely embedded with many an Al Qaeda terrorist among others.  They are not all about fighting for freedom and the brutality they bring to this war is frankly as chilling as that being meted out by Assad.  Anyone who is pretending that letting the rebel forces take control is going to make things better might be "horribly" mistaken.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

"For fifty years, they are companions to corruption," he said. "We swear to the Lord of the Throne, that this is our oath: We will take revenge."

The moment the poem ended, the commander, known as "the Uncle," fired a bullet into the back of the first prisoner's head. His gunmen followed suit, promptly killing all the men at their feet.

This scene, documented in a video smuggled out of Syria a few days ago by a former rebel who grew disgusted by the killings, offers a dark insight into how many rebels have adopted some of the same brutal and ruthless tactics as the regime they are trying to overthrow.

I saw a video last night of a couple of kids being executed for supporting Assad.  They looked to be about 12 years old.  Kerry himself said that about 20% of the rebels are al Qaeda, so you can be sure the number is higher.  But even if it's 20%...these are the people our soldiers are going to be fighting alongside?  Oh that's right, we won't have any boots on the ground.  Ha.  Good one.

There is no upside to any of this and U.S. involvement will do nothing to change the dynamics of a very dysfunctional middle east.  The very idea that we as a nation are contemplating giving help to an organization or group embedded with Al Qaeda, the "worlds" enemy is frankly reprehensible.  I am amazed by the fantasy some in authority are telling themselves that leads them to believe that an entity that has used chemical weapons in the past, will not do so again after a potential strike.  When that happens, then what?  We all know what the "then what" is and it is all out war that could well lead to world war.  Then, everyone loses.

[Ajax]

This Biden guy is pretty smart sometimes.  Like in 2007 when he was saying the President doesn't have authority to bomb another country without Congress' approval.  And like in 2007 when he was warning about how crazy it would be to bomb Syria.  Man, I wish this guy was around today to talk some sense into people! 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/biden-on-romne-in-2012-ready-for-war-with-syria

Biden On Romney In 2012: "Ready To Go To War" With Syria
He offered no specifics. Assad "will go."
posted on September 5, 2013 at 2:24pm EDT
Andrew Kaczynski
BuzzFeed Staff

During the presidential election last year Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney for being "ready to go to war" in Syria. He offered no specifics.
"He said it was a mistake to set an end date for our warriors in Afghanistan and bring them home. He implies by the speech that he's ready to go to war in Syria and Iran," Biden said Sept. 2, 2012 speaking in York, Pennsylvania.
"He wants to move from cooperation to confrontation with Putin's Russia. And these guys say the president's out of touch? Out of touch? Swiss bank account, untold millions in the Cayman Islands. Who's out of touch, man?"
Biden more clearly defined his own Syria position in his vice presidential debate with Rep. Paul Ryan. He was asked why the need to intervene in Syria was not the same as in Libya where it was justified to prevent further massacres. (At that the time the death toll in Syria was 30,000. It has now passed 100,000 deaths.)
"Different country. It's a different country," Biden said. "It is five times as large geographically, it has one-fifth the population, that is Libya, one-fifth the population, five times as large geographically.It's in a part of the world where they're not going to see whatever would come from that war. It seep into a regional war."
"You're in a country that is heavily populated in the midst of the most dangerous area in the world. And, in fact, if in fact it blows up and the wrong people gain control, it's going to have impact on the entire region causing potentially regional wars," Biden added.
Biden said the Obama Administration was working with allies in the region to identify people to takeover in the "when" Assad fell.
"We are working hand and glove with the Turks, with the Jordanians, with the Saudis, and with all the people in the region attempting to identify the people who deserve the help so that when Assad goes — and he — there will be a legitimate government that follows on, not an Al Qaida-sponsored government that follows on."
Ryan and Biden said they agreed upon the Obama Administration's "red line" against chemical weapons.

[Cheshire Cat]

This Biden guy is pretty smart sometimes.  Like in 2007 when he was saying the President doesn't have authority to bomb another country without Congress' approval.  And like in 2007 when he was warning about how crazy it would be to bomb Syria.  Man, I wish this guy was around today to talk some sense into people! 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/biden-on-romne-in-2012-ready-for-war-with-syria

Biden On Romney In 2012: "Ready To Go To War" With Syria
He offered no specifics. Assad "will go."
posted on September 5, 2013 at 2:24pm EDT
Andrew Kaczynski
BuzzFeed Staff

During the presidential election last year Vice President Joe Biden attacked Mitt Romney for being "ready to go to war" in Syria. He offered no specifics.
"He said it was a mistake to set an end date for our warriors in Afghanistan and bring them home. He implies by the speech that he's ready to go to war in Syria and Iran," Biden said Sept. 2, 2012 speaking in York, Pennsylvania.
"He wants to move from cooperation to confrontation with Putin's Russia. And these guys say the president's out of touch? Out of touch? Swiss bank account, untold millions in the Cayman Islands. Who's out of touch, man?"
Biden more clearly defined his own Syria position in his vice presidential debate with Rep. Paul Ryan. He was asked why the need to intervene in Syria was not the same as in Libya where it was justified to prevent further massacres. (At that the time the death toll in Syria was 30,000. It has now passed 100,000 deaths.)
"Different country. It's a different country," Biden said. "It is five times as large geographically, it has one-fifth the population, that is Libya, one-fifth the population, five times as large geographically.It's in a part of the world where they're not going to see whatever would come from that war. It seep into a regional war."
"You're in a country that is heavily populated in the midst of the most dangerous area in the world. And, in fact, if in fact it blows up and the wrong people gain control, it's going to have impact on the entire region causing potentially regional wars," Biden added.
Biden said the Obama Administration was working with allies in the region to identify people to takeover in the "when" Assad fell.
"We are working hand and glove with the Turks, with the Jordanians, with the Saudis, and with all the people in the region attempting to identify the people who deserve the help so that when Assad goes — and he — there will be a legitimate government that follows on, not an Al Qaida-sponsored government that follows on."
Ryan and Biden said they agreed upon the Obama Administration's "red line" against chemical weapons.

Isn't that the truth.

[If_I_Loved_you]

1. Did you ever ask yourself why Assad would use chemical weapons? Yes he knows the Civil War isn't going away anytime soon. He used the Chemical Weapons feeling he has Big Brother Iran and Russia on his side that the Americans are not going to bomb his country? 2. Can you imagine a scenario where al Quaeda militants. I hope you don't believe these none humans over President Obama? 3. UN wasn't able to definitively say who launched the chemical attack. The UN has it's own agenda they want everybody to hold hands and sing? We are the World?

1.  That doesn't make sense to me.  But I guess if Assad is a madman it wouldn't have to make sense to anyone. 
2.  I don't know who to believe.  I believe that Obama and Kerry and the rest of the US government have demonstrated a willingness to lie to push an agenda.  I know that Putin is a liar.  And I don't doubt that Assad and the al Qaeda militants are liars.  So I don't know who to believe in this scenario.
3.  Yes, the UN has its own agenda.  So does the US - it's usually about money.  Even the Pope said that military strikes would be futile and there are other ways to handle this.  But he's got his own agenda too.

Have you followed the Assad Family over the years? His father was a butcher and they run their country like a dictatorship. A lot like Russia and Putin? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall and listen to Putin and Obama today behind closed doors? But your right the U.S. has their own agenda. And I like this Pope but I'm not Catholic I'm a Methodist. So I don't follow the same teaching as the Catholics are taught. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

Then there are the "questionable" rebel fighters, likely embedded with many an Al Qaeda terrorist among others.  They are not all about fighting for freedom and the brutality they bring to this war is frankly as chilling as that being meted out by Assad.  Anyone who is pretending that letting the rebel forces take control is going to make things better might be "horribly" mistaken.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

"For fifty years, they are companions to corruption," he said. "We swear to the Lord of the Throne, that this is our oath: We will take revenge."

The moment the poem ended, the commander, known as "the Uncle," fired a bullet into the back of the first prisoner's head. His gunmen followed suit, promptly killing all the men at their feet.

This scene, documented in a video smuggled out of Syria a few days ago by a former rebel who grew disgusted by the killings, offers a dark insight into how many rebels have adopted some of the same brutal and ruthless tactics as the regime they are trying to overthrow.

I saw a video last night of a couple of kids being executed for supporting Assad.  They looked to be about 12 years old.  Kerry himself said that about 20% of the rebels are al Qaeda, so you can be sure the number is higher.  But even if it's 20%...these are the people our soldiers are going to be fighting alongside?  Oh that's right, we won't have any boots on the ground.  Ha.  Good one.

There is no upside to any of this and U.S. involvement will do nothing to change the dynamics of a very dysfunctional middle east.  The very idea that we as a nation are contemplating giving help to an organization or group embedded with Al Qaeda, the "worlds" enemy is frankly reprehensible.  I am amazed by the fantasy some in authority are telling themselves that leads them to believe that an entity that has used chemical weapons in the past, will not do so again after a potential strike.  When that happens, then what?  We all know what the "then what" is and it is all out war that could well lead to world war.  Then, everyone loses.

Not True Diane there has been two other World Wars. WWI  & WWII and everyone didn't lose. Was it OK for Hitler to do what he did? If we wouldn't have gotten into WWII how do you think that War would have ended?

"God of our fathers, who by land and sea have ever lead us to victory, please continue your inspiring guidance in this the greatest of all conflicts. Strengthen my soul so that the weakening instinct of self-preservation, which besets all of us in battle, shall not blind me to my duty to my own manhood, to the glory of my calling, and to my responsibility to my fellow soldiers. Grant to our armed forces that disciplined valor and mutual confidence which insures success in war. Let me not mourn for the men who have died fighting, but rather let me be glad that such heroes have lived. If it be my lot to die, let me do so with courage and honor in a manner which will bring the greatest harm to the enemy, and please, oh Lord, protect and guide those I shall leave behind. Give us the victory, Lord."

General George S. Patton quotes (American General in World War I and II, 1885-1945)

[Ajax]

Have you followed the Assad Family over the years? His father was a butcher and they run their country like a dictatorship. A lot like Russia and Putin? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall and listen to Putin and Obama today behind closed doors? But your right the U.S. has their own agenda. And I like this Pope but I'm not Catholic I'm a Methodist. So I don't follow the same teaching as the Catholics are taught.

The world is full of butchers and dictators, but I don't think it's the United States' job to get rid of all of them.   Heck, half the time we put them into power or propped them up.  We were Murbarak's biggest supporter just a couple of years ago, until that became inconvenient. 

If we're going to get rid of every dictator out there, then we're going to run out of money and lose a lot of young Americans in the process.  The fact is, Syria doesn't pose a credible threat to the US or to US interest, and that's where it ends for me.  If the UN wants to go in after Assad, then fine.  That's what they were created for anyway.  But for the US to go in alone, without any other freaking country in the world joining us?  That's ridiculous.